I need everyone I've helped to help

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23 Aug 2012 08:48 #10439 by 928mac
I need everyone I've helped to help was created by 928mac
From my phone so ignore the typos please.

I would like all of you that know me to help.
As you can see we are having an election.
So my first question is do you like the attitude of what has been happening the past week or so?
If you do, (vote AO) and if Andrew wins, I am sure the flood gates will open and we will have Rennlist 1 and Rennlist 2-the new 928oc. IMHO

Is that what you want?

Personally I don't want that . I enjoy our private haven here and I would like to keep it that way.
But this is the members club and its a free vote.
I have also heard that our club savings will be used in some of their faverite areas and not nessaserally voted on but who knows right,
there are lots of shit comments flying during this time

So here is what I am asking.

I WANT YOU TO VOTE

And I would hope you will vote for James because I do not like hostile takeovers and that is what this has become.
Personally I don't think anyone that is not active on here should be able to run, but that's my personal opinion which should be talked about after the dust settles.

We have a lot of new people that have just joined as spies to report to the ones running against James.
They have been rude and said we are trash.
1 who has not showed his face in 7 years called me a dog or more directly he spoke of Stan’s dog in relation to closing a thread.
I actually closed it because Roger and Stan were getting into it, so in reality I closed it on or Prez.
Know one said they couldn't start another thread.

When I first got my car, I posted at Pelican.
I got beat up there as the new guy which I later noticed those people hung out at Rennlist and stirred shit up on other forums.
Stan invited me to the owners club which I feel is a safe place to record my progress and meet other owners.

So I am asking you to keep it safe here, Thats all
and I will try my best to help you and I believe James will too.

Brad

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23 Aug 2012 10:02 #10442 by midlman
Replied by midlman on topic I need everyone I've helped to help

From my phone so ignore the typos please.

I would like all of you that know me to help.
As you can see we are having an election.
So my first question is do you like the attitude of what has been happening the past week or so?
If you do, (vote AO) and if Andrew wins, I am sure the flood gates will open and we will have Rennlist 1 and Rennlist 2-the new 928oc. IMHO

Sorry Brad..but this is just wrong....I understand you like your little fiefdom where you are king and everyone else is beneath you..but get over it... Nothing will change on the OC board if Andrew wins..it will continue to be a place where 15 or so folks entertain themselves with 928 lore..




Is that what you want?

Personally I don't want that . I enjoy our private haven here and I would like to keep it that way.
But this is the members club and its a free vote.
I have also heard that our club savings will be used in some of their faverite areas and not nessaserally voted on but who knows right,
there are lots of shit comments flying during this time


Again..I call BS....but something drastically needs to change..I've said this many times..but haven't pushed the issue because I can't/don't volunteer to do 928OC stuff..I have just enough spare time to do PacNW stuff.. I don't expect anything from the OC..and you know what...I haven't been disappointed... I contribute so those that need the OC..can get some support..and the OC works for that for sure..

So here is what I am asking.

I WANT YOU TO VOTE

And I would hope you will vote for James because I do not like hostile takeovers and that is what this has become.
Personally I don't think anyone that is not active on here should be able to run, but that's my personal opinion which should be talked about after the dust settles.

We have a lot of new people that have just joined as spies to report to the ones running against James.
They have been rude and said we are trash.
1 who has not showed his face in 7 years called me a dog or more directly he spoke of Stan’s dog in relation to closing a thread.
I actually closed it because Roger and Stan were getting into it, so in reality I closed it on or Prez.
Know one said they couldn't start another thread.


No need to disparage Dave.. He is long time 928 royalty and it will reflect poorly on you and James if you do...

When I first got my car, I posted at Pelican.
I got beat up there as the new guy which I later noticed those people hung out at Rennlist and stirred shit up on other forums.
Stan invited me to the owners club which I feel is a safe place to record my progress and meet other owners.

Pelican is a shit hole (excuse the french)...it's the place most folks banned from Rennlist hang out..and the attitude there shows... you want a nice quiet place where everyone is polite..check out Reutterwerk... the same folks on rennlist and pelican are there..and you know what....they are polite to each other... Of course...Reutter has about as much traffic as here...but you seem to say you like that.. BTW..I'm not a big Rennlist fan either...I've been on there forever..and the mods leave much to be desired..

So I am asking you to keep it safe here, Thats all
and I will try my best to help you and I believe James will too.

Brad



Speaking as a manager of people.. I personally wouldn't take the best membership guy the OC has had and try to move him out of that position... We all know that the President position is thankless....let James continue to get new members into the OC...have Andrew take the reins of the OC... I have no doubt they can work together to get the OC into the next phase....

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23 Aug 2012 10:27 #10444 by srshaw3
Replied by srshaw3 on topic I need everyone I've helped to help

Speaking as a manager of people.. I personally wouldn't take the best membership guy the OC has had and try to move him out of that position... We all know that the President position is thankless....let James continue to get new members into the OC...have Andrew take the reins of the OC... I have no doubt they can work together to get the OC into the next phase....


My discussions with James have led me to believe he was putting his time in as membership chair in part to prove to the members that he would be committed to serving as the President.

James never led me to believe he would continue as membership chair after this term, regardless of whom the president is.

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23 Aug 2012 10:49 #10450 by OBehave
Replied by OBehave on topic I need everyone I've helped to help

My discussions with James have led me to believe he was putting his time in as membership chair in part to prove to the members that he would be committed to serving as the President.

James never led me to believe he would continue as membership chair after this term, regardless of whom the president is.


As I believe he should have. Who is going to care more about the club and it's members more than an existing member who also volunteers parts of his life to make said club better? Whether it was Andrew or a total stranger,the personality doesn't matter, as a business owner and also a manager of people I know this, you will get more from promoting from within, than bringing in an outsider, especially in a leadership position. That only leads to animosity and hurt feelings and lost productivity which all bring down the company.

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23 Aug 2012 11:26 #10457 by midlman
Replied by midlman on topic I need everyone I've helped to help
I don't think caring for the club and caring for the 928 are that different. Both candidates care deeply for the 928 and this is what matters.

I don't think one should discount someone just because they aren't in the club for a long time or haven't donated time to it... Heck..you guys let Brad in here to run the show and he has less experience with 928's than most others..

The key to the OC is to keep those with an absolute passion for the 928...in positions where they use that enthusiasm to infect others...

If you truly care about the organization first...then I would personally try to keep the effective people where they work best (I think the membership position is one of the most important roles in the club... It's the first contact (sometimes only contact) folks have with the club). .... at this critical juncture of the OC...to cut the legs out from underneath the group would not be a good idea

To lose James in that role would be devastating ...

and yes.. I understand that folks stagnate and allowing a path for improvement and advancement are key...but this is a club of volunteers...so it's a little different.

You keep referencing Andrew as an outsider... but he is not..he probably has more experience in 928's than folks here.... and as far as promoting from within vs. outside .... many companies have been doomed to oblivion due to their inability to change/want to change..... Fresh thoughts ideas are often needed to take the company to the next level...

and I believe both James and Andrew possess the passion and ability to spread the holy 928 word...best of luck to both candidates.

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23 Aug 2012 12:40 #10460 by srshaw3
Replied by srshaw3 on topic I need everyone I've helped to help

Heck..you guys let Brad in here to run the show and he has less experience with 928's than most others..


Brad is a professional mechanic, and took to 928s with a passion. He answers questions as he can, and is willing to be here as a moderator. The others you are referring to may possess more 928 specific knowledge, but they aren't here volunteering to do what Brad, and Austin, have done. Moderating the forum is mostly about keeping posters in diplomatic check and trying to ensure everyone who asks a questions gets an answer or a direction to go in.

You keep referencing Andrew as an outsider... but he is not..he probably has more experience in 928's than folks here....


Without getting into a debate over this, Andrew *is* an outsider here, as he hardly ever posted, and has stated he rarely came to this site. That was so evident as many of the changes he proposed to implement are already in progress.

As far as his expertise, I don't know what it is, but I know Ed has done more with 928s than I have, and I have 23 years of ownership, about a dozen or more 928s of ownership, complete dis-assembly of a few as well as building and racing a 928, not to mention the revival/restoration of a few. We have many members who post here frequently that are in quite deep with their 928s. Are you really sure you know how much expertise is here?

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23 Aug 2012 14:29 #10465 by DR928
Replied by DR928 on topic I need everyone I've helped to help

1 who has not showed his face in 7 years called me a dog or more directly he spoke of Stan’s dog in relation to closing a thread.


First off, I said "dogs" as in plural, I never singled you out and as I clarified later it was not directed at you personally and even apologized to you for it coming off that way. Obviously you cannot accept that in good faith...so be it.

Secondly, you say I have been absent to the OC the past 7 years....you sure are VERY ignorant of the facts and speaking of things you obviously know NOTHING about.

Data Point:

1: I recently served as an Elected Trustee just a couple of years ago.

2: I have religiously supported the OC at my Sharks in the Mountains (and Harbor) from 1998 until 2010, (13 years worth).

3:I have sponsored the last 14 928 Frenzy OC Sponsored Events and attended ALL 15 of them. FYI, Frenzy is where myself, Ed Ruiz, Jim Crumb, and Leonard Laub CREATED the 928 Owners Club.

3: Even in 2010 when the 928OC decided to no longer sponsor Sharks in the Mountains, we still put up the OC banner and handed out membership forms to everyone that attended and promoted the 928OC. I have continued to tout and promote the 928OC at my events even after that and have always given time to anyone from the OC to speak and or promote the OC or other OC events.

4 Not ONE single person, or ANY VENDOR has supported the 928OC and OC sponsored events for as long, or as much as I have. Many can try and say they have, but show me one that has done 13 years straight of direct support for the 928OC, 14 years of Sponsorship of and attendance at the OLDEST and longest running 928 OC Sponsored Event ever....much less helped create the OC, built and paid for the website for the first 4 years, and helped run the OC for the first 4 years.

Now Brad, how about you list YOUR support and dedication to the 928OC and let's compare notes.

Not sure how you are even close to being worthy as a Moderator here with Threads and posts like you are making...IMHO, someone made a BIG mistake.

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23 Aug 2012 14:47 #10466 by srshaw3
Replied by srshaw3 on topic I need everyone I've helped to help

Now Brad, how about you list YOUR support and dedication to the 928OC and let's compare notes.

Not sure how you are even close to being worthy as a Moderator here with Threads and posts like you are making...IMHO, someone made a BIG mistake.


You certainly are free with the condensing and critical remarks Dave.

I think many, yourself included, have a completely different perception from what makes the 928 OC function. While events are wonderful. No 1 or 2 events makes the 928 OC function. Your support of those events is definitely appreciated, as well as your support of the 928 OC, but I don't think there is anyone that would question it is also a business decision on your part for supporting those events.

Brad is another person that is here helping members and being *positive* on a multi-time per week basis. That is what it takes to grow the club, as has been shown with 40% growth in the past 2 years. Most new members find the site through the 'net, and go to events afterwards, some never get to an event and that is ok, as the 928 OC's mission is:
"Our sole purpose is to support owners' in their use and maintenance of the Porsche 928s throughout the world"

So, while you efforts are quite helpful, they are the same efforts that you provided before I took leadership, right? And the club was definitely dead then. It was suggested by many that it should discarded, but I decided to *change* what it was doing and I sought to get people to help me in that process. Brad is someone who has accepted that direction and put in his effort.

As a data point, you have not requested support in the past few years, so you can not say the 928 OC chose not to sponsor SITM, as we were *not* asked. I will say that when I heard you were no longer allowing any 928 owner to attend, only your customers (which is your right), if you had asked for sponsorship it would have been problematic, and in fact that is why I thought *YOU* chose not to ask for support.

You are one of the founders, without question, and you did serve as a trustee. Since you are being so critical of Brad, can you cite a single program or function you have initiated or supported development of by the 928 OC? When I took over the Frenzy it was the only event the 928 OC sponsored, and that was all the activity of the 928 OC prior to 2003.

I am sorry to say, the facts are what they are. Your support of the 928 OC has been wonderful from a vendor sponsor's perspective.

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23 Aug 2012 15:10 #10468 by DR928
Replied by DR928 on topic I need everyone I've helped to help
Stan,

So you really think Brad's posts here are positive and helpful and serve to reduce tensions on forum as a Moderator should do?

DO you really think you as the President and "leader" of the 928OC served the best interest of the 928 OC by going to Rennlist, a public forum, and making negative remarks about Andrew, who is an Officially appointed Nominee for President of the 928OC and fellow 928 owner.??

As the President of the 928OC you should have been above all that, IMHO you embarrassed the 928OC and the office you hold...and with each post you make you continue to do so.

Next time, how about just posting how and why you support a candidate of you like and tout their positives...instead of making negative condensing and critical marks about an Official 928OC Candidate and fellow 928 Owner. Had you done that, NONE of this probably would have happened, and I certainly would not have felt compelled to speak up.

I still think it is inappropriate for you to have made any biased comments concerning the election given your position as President, Nominee Chair, Head Vote counter, owner of the Hosting Company that hosts the Website and Forum and has absolute control of all electronic activity including the votes cast. I stand by that and if you call that me being free with the condensing and critical marks, so be it.

You sir started all of this recent negativity surrounding the 928OC and are directly RESPONSIBLE for every bit that has happened since then. You are our LEADER..but you are not acting like one, again my opinion, debate it with yourself all you like.

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23 Aug 2012 15:11 #10469 by 928mac
Replied by 928mac on topic I need everyone I've helped to help

First off, I said "dogs" as in plural, I never singled you out and as I clarified later it was not directed at you personally and even apologized to you for it coming off that way. Obviously you cannot accept that in good faith...so be it.

Secondly, you say I have been absent to the OC the past 7 years....you sure are VERY ignorant of the facts and speaking of things you obviously know NOTHING about.

Data Point:

1: I recently served as an Elected Trustee just a couple of years ago.

2: I have religiously supported the OC at my Sharks in the Mountains (and Harbor) from 1998 until 2010, (13 years worth).

3:I have sponsored the last 14 928 Frenzy OC Sponsored Events and attended ALL 15 of them. FYI, Frenzy is where myself, Ed Ruiz, Jim Crumb, and Leonard Laub CREATED the 928 Owners Club.

3: Even in 2010 when the 928OC decided to no longer sponsor Sharks in the Mountains, we still put up the OC banner and handed out membership forms to everyone that attended and promoted the 928OC. I have continued to tout and promote the 928OC at my events even after that and have always given time to anyone from the OC to speak and or promote the OC or other OC events.

4 Not ONE single person, or ANY VENDOR has supported the 928OC and OC sponsored events for as long, or as much as I have. Many can try and say they have, but show me one that has done 13 years straight of direct support for the 928OC, 14 years of Sponsorship of and attendance at the OLDEST and longest running 928 OC Sponsored Event ever....much less helped create the OC, built and paid for the website for the first 4 years, and helped run the OC for the first 4 years.

Now Brad, how about you list YOUR support and dedication to the 928OC and let's compare notes.

Not sure how you are even close to being worthy as a Moderator here with Threads and posts like you are making...IMHO, someone made a BIG mistake.


Dave I stand corrected as I was repeating something that I obviously miss understood or posted incorrectly.
Please forgive me. :D

You are correct that you did apologize for the Dog comment and that it was not intended as it came across, so I should have let it go.

You will have to excuse my Mod skills because everyone here (regular 928oc posters) has been mature enough that no real moderation has ever been required in the 2 years I have been here, except for moving threads or helping to direct others to correct repair procedures.

It is possible that maybe they met you have not been visible on the board until now.
I would like to be clear though that I have never felt that this mod position is a permanent position and I took it on just to help out. Funny how that works eh Dave, I do it to try and help.

We dont need to get into a Pissing match, (hell we don't even know each other) ... this is not about you and I and we should let James and Andrew run their election.

I hope every thing is cool with you towards me,

I even explained and unlocked Andrews thread and apologized to him for the inconvenience.

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23 Aug 2012 15:13 #10470 by DR928
Replied by DR928 on topic I need everyone I've helped to help

I am sorry to say, the facts are what they are. Your support of the 928 OC has been wonderful from a vendor sponsor's perspective.


Says the man who has had Excell.Net plastered on every webpage of 928OC website for 9 years..in his forum username, and even in the Election E-mail notification I received...oh and in your signature here too.

Kind of ironic huh? Look in the mirror!

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23 Aug 2012 15:20 #10471 by midlman
Replied by midlman on topic I need everyone I've helped to help

Brad is a professional mechanic, and took to 928s with a passion. He answers questions as he can, and is willing to be here as a moderator. The others you are referring to may possess more 928 specific knowledge, but they aren't here volunteering to do what Brad, and Austin, have done. Moderating the forum is mostly about keeping posters in diplomatic check and trying to ensure everyone who asks a questions gets an answer or a direction to go in.


I have no problem with Brad moderating the forum and don't doubt his mechanical expertise....the comment was related to time folks have been involved in 928's..Brad is relatively new here..there and elsewhere in the greater 928 world. Kudos to Brad for stepping up to moderate the web board.



Without getting into a debate over this, Andrew *is* an outsider here, as he hardly ever posted, and has stated he rarely came to this site. That was so evident as many of the changes he proposed to implement are already in progress.

I don't consider this web forum to "BE" the 928OC....the OC is much bigger than just a simple board where folks discuss owners club stuff...I hope the goal of the OC isn't to separate and distance itself from the other forums and groups... because it won't last long if that is the plan

As far as his expertise, I don't know what it is, but I know Ed has done more with 928s than I have, and have 23 years of ownership, about a dozen or more 928s of ownership, complete dis-assembly of a few as well as building and racing a 928, not to mention the revival/restoration of a few. We have many members who post here frequently that are in quite deep with their 928s. Are you really sure you know how much expertise is here?


You know...that expertise is over on rennlist too..there's an Ed over there that has done some amazing things (LOL)...and there's a Wally there....he does quite a bit too...and a Dwayne...etc etc etc... Andrew has been around as long a James...maybe not on this web board...but again...this web board is not the OC....The OC is much bigger and should in my opinion encompass all that is 928.... Dave brought up the point that Marc White and others have very little activity "here" that doesn't make them "outsiders" BTW..doesn't Andrew set up Shark in Hell every year on his own...with some financial assistance from the OC?....

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23 Aug 2012 15:23 #10472 by DR928
Replied by DR928 on topic I need everyone I've helped to help

... this is not about you and I and we should let James and Andrew run their election.


Right, so why don't you , Stan, and a few other 928OC Officials back off and let the Candidates do their thing and the members decide...this is ALL I have been trying to say.

Show me you mean this and go and delete every negative or biased post about Andrew that any 928OC Official has posted here, I am not even saying delete the positive posts any Official made about James (FWIW, I like James very much, but like Andrew equally as well and consider them both friends)...when you do that you have my blessing to delete every post I have made and I will not say another word here.

All I have been about is to stop this biased attack on an official 928OC Officer Nominee by those in charge of the process(including the forums), I feel it is an embarrassing misuse of power and is extremely inappropriate, nothing more, nothing less.

Sincerely,

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23 Aug 2012 15:30 #10473 by midlman
Replied by midlman on topic I need everyone I've helped to help
Exactly Dave... there have been nothing but negative posts by Stan, Brad, Jerry and a couple others I can't recall.... here and over on the other forums. IMHO...it reflects extremely poorly on your chosen candidate.. and serves to alienate folks from the OC..

Those posts are the only reason I'm over here commenting on it...


Right, so why don't you , Stan, and a few other 928OC Officials back off and let the Candidates do their thing and the members decide...this is ALL I have been trying to say.

Show me you mean this and go and delete every negative or biased post about Andrew that any 928OC Official has posted here, I am not even saying delete the positive posts any Official made about James (FWIW, I like James very much, but like Andrew equally as well and consider them both friends)...when you do that you have my blessing to delete every post I have made and I will not say another word here.

All I have been about is to stop this biased attack on an official 928OC Officer Nominee by those in charge of the process(including the forums), I feel it is an embarrassing misuse of power and is extremely inappropriate, nothing more, nothing less.

Sincerely,

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23 Aug 2012 15:33 #10474 by srshaw3
Replied by srshaw3 on topic I need everyone I've helped to help

Stan,

So you really think Brad's posts here are positive and helpful and serve to reduce tensions on forum as a Moderator should do?


I think as a moderator Brad has attempted to set the limits that are acceptable. While I may not agree with every decision he makes, it is made with the best of intent, and are not unreasonable in the least. So, yes, I think this promotes a positive environment here.

DO you really think you as the President and "leader" of the 928OC served the best interest of the 928 OC by going to Rennlist, a public forum, and making negative remarks about Andrew, who is an Officially appointed Nominee for President of the 928OC and fellow 928 owner.??

As the President of the 928OC you should have been above all that, IMHO you embarrassed the 928OC and the office you hold...and with each post you make you continue to do so.


Yes, as the president it is my responsibility to ensure members understand what is fact and what is fiction. I keep posting facts, nobody contradicts them with any evidence, yet they continue to spout fiction.

I think all the Johnny come lately s are the ones that should be embarrassed. They come with so much information, spouting about how change is needed to a club that grew by 40% in 2 years, without a single shred of evidence of what needs to be changed nor ANY knowledge of how it was accomplished.

Next time, how about just posting how and why you support a candidate of you like and tout their positives...instead of making negative condensing and critical marks about an Official 928OC Candidate and fellow 928 Owner. Had you done that, NONE of this probably would have happened, and I certainly would not have felt compelled to speak up.


Because Dave, Andrew has been MIA. He has never been involved in the functions of the 928 OC. He said all of this two years ago, I disproved it then, without my moral character being questioned, and enough people saw him for what he was, that he lost. Two months ago he renews his membership and makes the same statements, without a care as to how accurate they are. The *members* deserve to know this, and without me saying it, they would have no idea how much fiction they are hearing.

I still think it is inappropriate for you to have made any biased comments concerning the election given your position as President, Nominee Chair, Head Vote counter, owner of the Hosting Company that hosts the Website and Forum and has absolute control of all electronic activity including the votes cast. I stand by that and if you call that me being free with the condensing and critical marks, so be it.


Well that is a strange world you live in. As presidents quite commonly campaign for their chosen successor.

More moral questions without a shred of evidence. I will state I have never been accused of any wrong doing, and I know of others than can not say the same of themselves.

The vote is audited by others, as it always has been, so you need to cast aspersions on their character as well.

You have said we are friends, well Dave, my friends don't question my honesty, and actually all my friends know me too well to even consider it.

You sir started all of this recent negativity surrounding the 928OC and are directly RESPONSIBLE for every bit that has happened since then. You are our LEADER..but you are not acting like one, again my opinion, debate it with yourself all you like.


No Dave, it is you and the other Rennlist crowd that has decided the 928 OC they abandoned and chose not to support is now a prize worth taking.

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23 Aug 2012 15:35 #10475 by srshaw3
Replied by srshaw3 on topic I need everyone I've helped to help

Says the man who has had Excell.Net plastered on every webpage of 928OC website for 9 years..in his forum username, and even in the Election E-mail notification I received...oh and in your signature here too.

Kind of ironic huh? Look in the mirror!


Dave, the value in business the 928 OC has brought me, approaches zero. Do you really think I put in many hours each week for that reward? I would be much smarter to be like you, sponsor an event here and there, and sell all sorts of 928 merchandise.

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23 Aug 2012 15:39 #10476 by DR928
Replied by DR928 on topic I need everyone I've helped to help
Stan,

You can continue twisting and spinning my words all you like. I never said anything about you being dishonest, I said someone with the absolute control of the process should be UNBIASED, doing less creates doubts in people's minds that maybe don't know you, and you should know better.

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23 Aug 2012 15:42 #10477 by srshaw3
Replied by srshaw3 on topic I need everyone I've helped to help

You know...that expertise is over on rennlist too..there's an Ed over there that has done some amazing things (LOL)...and there's a Wally there....he does quite a bit too...and a Dwayne...etc etc etc...


Trying to change the subject eh? The subject was the expertise here. This is the 928 OC, not Rennlist, perhaps you forgot.

The information on rennlist could disappear tomorrow and you would have nothing, as the content belongs to Internet Brands.

Andrew has been around as long a James...maybe not on this web board...but again...this web board is not the OC....The OC is much bigger and should in my opinion encompass all that is 928.... Dave brought up the point that Marc White and others have very little activity "here" that doesn't make them "outsiders" BTW..doesn't Andrew set up Shark in Hell every year on his own...with some financial assistance from the OC?....


Your point was about people "here". Andrew has not been "here", so he is an outsider "here". Actually those people who think the OCIC is the 928 OC are the ones who are confused, as it served 10% of the membership at a cost of $2800, equivalent to 100 members dues. The result? 1 new member.

Andrew has some involvement in that event, but there are others. Certainly it is laudable that he runs a local event. I have been involved in many too. As I have posted often, that has nothing to do with running the 928 OC. Unfortunately you, and Andrew, wouldn't know that as you haven't involved yourself. Yet, like so many others you do have complaints.

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23 Aug 2012 15:45 #10478 by srshaw3
Replied by srshaw3 on topic I need everyone I've helped to help

Stan,

You can continue twisting and spinning my words all you like. I never said anything about you being dishonest, I said someone with the absolute control of the process should be UNBIASED, doing less creates doubts in people's minds that maybe don't know you, and you should know better.


Really, you think after your implication that I control the elections so shouldn't post my view, is going to be perceived by anyone that you are not questioning my honesty?

If you wanted someone else to run the election, you could have offered, in *any* of the last 9 years.

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23 Aug 2012 15:50 #10479 by DR928
Replied by DR928 on topic I need everyone I've helped to help

Dave, the value in business the 928 OC has brought me, approaches zero. Do you really think I put in many hours each week for that reward? I would be much smarter to be like you, sponsor an event here and there, and sell all sorts of 928 merchandise.


Prove it, take all of the Excell.net propaganda off of anything related to the 928OC, the website pages, your username, your signature and anywhere else..I never used the 928OC to advertise my company, it was the opposite, I used my company to advertise and promote the 928OC.

In case you have forgotten, I resigned as an 928OC Officer and webmaster just so ONE additional 928 Vendor would pledge their support to the 928OC. I did that FOR the 928OC, not for me, or my company.

As you should know, the 928OC was to never have outside advertising on the website, much less every page....and BTW aren't you being paid for 928OC hosting service? Yes of course you should be, but get paid and plaster your company everywhere? Again, not appropriate.

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23 Aug 2012 16:02 #10480 by DR928
Replied by DR928 on topic I need everyone I've helped to help

If you wanted someone else to run the election, you could have offered, in *any* of the last 9 years.


Here we go with the pity party again...show me where you ASKED for help. As with anything in life people don't always know you need help until you ask. Yes, I agree you shouldn't need to, but someone as smart as you should know you need to ask if you need help.

You should have a Forum area just so Officials could post about things they need help with instead of whing about no help all the time.

Oh wait, you have been busy putting that 1 Tool loaner program together the last 9 years that you are so proud of..LOL

Yes, I know a second tool was added yesterday. 2 Tools costing less than a few hundred a piece..but by golly we bought 10s of thousands of dollars of gifts to give members, more money spend on "Member Bribes" than Event Sponsorship, very nice programs you have championed!

Wonder how the 928 owners are using the "Tire Clocks, key chains, Valve stem caps, bags, and other crap" to further and enhance 928 Ownership.

Yes I love what you have done with the place in the last 9 years, congrats!!

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23 Aug 2012 16:36 #10482 by Kiln_Red
Replied by Kiln_Red on topic I need everyone I've helped to help
Dave, I disagree that Brad isn't a fit moderator. The AO nomination thread was reopened and I think that shows a great amount of objectivity on Brad's part.

At what point can you and Stan, and others, simply agree to disagree. You and Stan, and others, make valid points that I DO FEEL should be heard. I see no crime in Stan campaigning for James not do I see any crime in anyone in any leadership role with the OC having an opinion; whether it's received as positive or otherwise. In my position, it is simply important to preserve that each member gets an equal voice. IMO we have been consistent on this beginning from the time we decided to allow these political discussions to begin with.

Read over AO's nomination thread again. Asking Stan to stay silent about Andrew's campaign points seems absurd as both Stan and his accomplishments were put in question right from the beginning.

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23 Aug 2012 16:45 #10483 by DR928
Replied by DR928 on topic I need everyone I've helped to help

Really, you think after your implication that I control the elections so shouldn't post my view, is going to be perceived by anyone that you are not questioning my honesty?


Stan,

Getting back to trying to be more serious (my last post, was well..OK, emotional and made out of frustration, and not productive, sorry)..and in answering your question.

What I have been attempting (obviously poorly) to get you to understand is that you making the posts on RL that started all of this recent "stuff"...has validated and increased the rumblings I have been getting since the last time Andrew ran against you that lots of people do feel that way.

This is nothing new and me making the comments only lately about the perception of the possibility of potential of "abuse of power" was trying to get you to wake up and realize it is an issue.. in hopes you would be more biased and reduce that perception from others, and especially from people who do not know you.

But yes, many people are obviously thinking it, I have heard directly from some saying it and heard of others saying it way before this election cycle..IN EVERY INSTANCE OF THIS, I had said "Yes, I can understand why you could question this, BUT I assure you Stan is not going to be dishonest about 928OC election results" I ALWAYS defended your honor.

I am sure once again I am not saying this the right way, and hopefully you won't take it the wrong way. It is not meant or ever meant to question your honesty, ever.....it was only meant for you to realize that it puts you in a position for others to do so and also reflect upon the 928OC and yes even on your candidate...which is the worst travesty of all...James deserves better.

To speak to your other comment about you campaigning for James, and that other Presidents (meaning real Goverment) can campaign for who they want in office. Yes, absolutely..but they aren't in charge of and in control of nominating all the candidates, and counting all the votes...that is a big difference...and because you did choose to take on those responsibilities (no matter for lack of help or not)....you need and should to hold yourself to a higher standard...it is really as simple as that.

Sincerely,

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23 Aug 2012 16:47 #10484 by Kiln_Red
Replied by Kiln_Red on topic I need everyone I've helped to help

Here we go with the pity party again...show me where you ASKED for help. As with anything in life people don't always know you need help until you ask. Yes, I agree you shouldn't need to, but someone as smart as you should know you need to ask if you need help.

You should have a Forum area just so Officials could post about things they need help with instead of whing about no help all the time.

Oh wait, you have been busy putting that 1 Tool loaner program together the last 9 years that you are so proud of..LOL

Yes, I know a second tool was added yesterday. 2 Tools costing less than a few hundred a piece..but by golly we bought 10s of thousands of dollars of gifts to give members, more money spend on "Member Bribes" than Event Sponsorship, very nice programs you have championed!

Wonder how the 928 owners are using the "Tire Clocks, key chains, Valve stem caps, bags, and other crap" to further and enhance 928 Ownership.

Yes I love what you have done with the place in the last 9 years, congrats!!


Is this post really indicative of where you want to take this conversation, Dave? Maybe we can, at some point, get back to business here. There is an election going on that we all care very much about, obviously. If everyone is still on board to let the debating continue, let's at least stay on point. Many members enjoy their merchandise as do I. My 928 flashlight stays in the glovebox. I love it.

If there were never issues with Excell, OC merchandise, or the tool program before then there shouldn't be now.

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23 Aug 2012 16:52 #10485 by Kiln_Red
Replied by Kiln_Red on topic I need everyone I've helped to help

Stan,

Getting back to trying to be more serious (my last post, was well..OK, emotional and made out of frustration, and not productive, sorry)..and in answering your question


Thank you for this admission. It was rather obvious. Play nicely, friends. :)

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23 Aug 2012 17:17 #10488 by DR928
Replied by DR928 on topic I need everyone I've helped to help

Thank you for this admission. It was rather obvious. Play nicely, friends. :)


Hi Austin,

I have no problem admitting when I am wrong, or out of line, sorry again to you and everyone else about that.

Also, thanks for allowing me that moment of emotion/frustration, I have been trying hard to keep emotion out of this...which is extremely hard as I am as passionate about the OC as anyone, no matter what others think or not....but even if it may not appear that way at times, I am trying to "play nicely" and will continue to do so.

BTW, since I was accused of being freely condescending, I guess I had to show what it is like when I AM being condescending in that post...hopefully the contrast was obvious...BTW, this last part is sort of tongue in cheek. :-)

Thanks again,

Dave

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23 Aug 2012 17:29 #10490 by srshaw3
Replied by srshaw3 on topic I need everyone I've helped to help

Prove it, take all of the Excell.net propaganda off of anything related to the 928OC, the website pages, your username, your signature and anywhere else..I never used the 928OC to advertise my company, it was the opposite, I used my company to advertise and promote the 928OC.

In case you have forgotten, I resigned as an 928OC Officer and webmaster just so ONE additional 928 Vendor would pledge their support to the 928OC. I did that FOR the 928OC, not for me, or my company.

As you should know, the 928OC was to never have outside advertising on the website, much less every page....and BTW aren't you being paid for 928OC hosting service? Yes of course you should be, but get paid and plaster your company everywhere? Again, not appropriate.


Actually you forget, prior to my being president I developed the website, and the agreement was that my business name would be on the website. Sorry to hear your memory is selective.

I have never been paid for maintenance to the website or for the services I provide in the installation and development of the web forum. Don't intentionally mislead people. Seems to be a trend of yours, mislead then say that isn't what you meant.

Whomever takes on the website maintenance if Andrew wins, is welcome to take off my business name.

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23 Aug 2012 17:35 #10491 by srshaw3
Replied by srshaw3 on topic I need everyone I've helped to help

Here we go with the pity party again...show me where you ASKED for help. As with anything in life people don't always know you need help until you ask. Yes, I agree you shouldn't need to, but someone as smart as you should know you need to ask if you need help.

You should have a Forum area just so Officials could post about things they need help with instead of whing about no help all the time.

Oh wait, you have been busy putting that 1 Tool loaner program together the last 9 years that you are so proud of..LOL

Yes, I know a second tool was added yesterday. 2 Tools costing less than a few hundred a piece..but by golly we bought 10s of thousands of dollars of gifts to give members, more money spend on "Member Bribes" than Event Sponsorship, very nice programs you have championed!

Wonder how the 928 owners are using the "Tire Clocks, key chains, Valve stem caps, bags, and other crap" to further and enhance 928 Ownership.

Yes I love what you have done with the place in the last 9 years, congrats!!



Because you have been MIA, I guess you haven't bothered to look, no surprise. Here is is, a sticky that has been in place for almost 2 years: forums.928oc.org/vbulletin/showthread.ph...highlight=volunteers

I could spend time looking for volunteers or do the job. I have found volunteers who don't come through, so the effort in chasing them down, doesn't make any sense.

Great job from you Dave, nothing but criticism, with no effort from you, even as I pointed out while you were a trustee.

You, and others, wonder why I respond, when you make baseless accusations. How hard is that to do from the cheap seats on the sideline?

9 years, I took a dead organization that you were involved in, to what it is today. Yes, most members are very appreciative of the mementos, that are typically quite useful in 928 ownership. I say that as I support them, even though I didn't pick any of them.

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23 Aug 2012 17:51 #10493 by srshaw3
Replied by srshaw3 on topic I need everyone I've helped to help

Stan,

Getting back to trying to be more serious (my last post, was well..OK, emotional and made out of frustration, and not productive, sorry)..and in answering your question.

What I have been attempting (obviously poorly) to get you to understand is that you making the posts on RL that started all of this recent "stuff"...has validated and increased the rumblings I have been getting since the last time Andrew ran against you that lots of people do feel that way.

This is nothing new and me making the comments only lately about the perception of the possibility of potential of "abuse of power" was trying to get you to wake up and realize it is an issue.. in hopes you would be more biased and reduce that perception from others, and especially from people who do not know you.

But yes, many people are obviously thinking it, I have heard directly from some saying it and heard of others saying it way before this election cycle..IN EVERY INSTANCE OF THIS, I had said "Yes, I can understand why you could question this, BUT I assure you Stan is not going to be dishonest about 928OC election results" I ALWAYS defended your honor.

I am sure once again I am not saying this the right way, and hopefully you won't take it the wrong way. It is not meant or ever meant to question your honesty, ever.....it was only meant for you to realize that it puts you in a position for others to do so and also reflect upon the 928OC and yes even on your candidate...which is the worst travesty of all...James deserves better.

To speak to your other comment about you campaigning for James, and that other Presidents (meaning real Goverment) can campaign for who they want in office. Yes, absolutely..but they aren't in charge of and in control of nominating all the candidates, and counting all the votes...that is a big difference...and because you did choose to take on those responsibilities (no matter for lack of help or not)....you need and should to hold yourself to a higher standard...it is really as simple as that.

Sincerely,


So, because I am the only one willing to run the election, I should lose my right to speak about my record? Rather than question the dishonesty about my record, I should sit back and allow others to disparage it, along with my moral character?

Quite a big load you want me to carry Dave. I have been carrying the load for 9 years. I don't want any pity. I don't even want appreciation. I want the 928 OC to be recognized for what it is. A *thriving* financially sound club that grew 40% in two years. It is being maliciously maligned based on fiction, and you are supporting that.

No, I will not give up my right to speak out simply because I took on the load of running the elections. Again, the elections would *not* exist *ever* were it not for my initiative and efforts. The people on the sidelines questioning it all, will quickly quiet down again when volunteers are sought. It happened just 2 years ago.

Those who have worked with me on the 928 OC board, and that includes you Dave, have *not* offered to work an election or nomination.

Sorry, but your expectations, as many of the "would be" members is laughable. I have been here for 9 years, and those who come through when there is work to be done are *very* few. I treasure those people, and will defend them quite vigorously.

I will *not* give my right to speak out in exchange for being some kind of worker drone for the 928 OC.

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23 Aug 2012 17:58 #10495 by srshaw3
Replied by srshaw3 on topic I need everyone I've helped to help

. Many members enjoy their merchandise as do I. My 928 flashlight stays in the glovebox. I love it.

If there were never issues with Excell, OC merchandise, or the tool program before then there shouldn't be now.


Thanks Austin, that is what I have heard, the valve caps are a nice addition, and the duffel bag is wonderful for carrying the 928 essential emergency kit. The first aid kit is similarly nice. And contrary to Dave's opinion of us buying off members, each item is a recruiting tool, as members are reminded of just 1 of the things the 928 OC does, and can easily share it with prospective member. Similarly the mementos that each sponsored event must provide with our logo, reminds members what we have done. I was told the collection display at the OCIC was quite impressive.

Forgive me for point out, all of these methods are a way of building the club and providing value to members.

There has never been a complaint about the services Excell.Net offer. I am sure my business partner would be thrilled if I were to spend billable time on other work, rather than supporting the 928 OC.

It is really easy to take shots at efforts others have taken, when you are sitting on the sidelines. The bottom line is that the 928 OC is growing in spite of those non-members who have a long term axe to grind.

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23 Aug 2012 18:05 #10497 by srshaw3
Replied by srshaw3 on topic I need everyone I've helped to help

In case you have forgotten, I resigned as an 928OC Officer and webmaster just so ONE additional 928 Vendor would pledge their support to the 928OC. I did that FOR the 928OC, not for me, or my company.


This sounds like a dream you had Dave. When I took over 9 years ago, there was nothing happening, the website was static. I have no idea what vendor you are referring to. It took me many years to get 928 Int'l to consider an involvement at Sharktoberfest, it certainly wasn't right after you resigned. Devek never came on board because of the bad blood that existed before I took on this role. It was years before I was able to put most of the bad feelings for claimed shirts not received, for members questioning what was done with their membership fees, etc.

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23 Aug 2012 18:12 #10498 by DR928
Replied by DR928 on topic I need everyone I've helped to help

Actually you forget, prior to my being president I developed the website, and the agreement was that my business name would be on the website. Sorry to hear your memory is selective.


I do not remember that, and as the loudest proponent of having no advertising on the 928OC website, I remember it very differently. I do remember you being offered to be listed in the "Vendor Directory" that is all.

But, even if you think you remember it otherwise, or even if I remember it wrong, it sure shows your pure dedication to the 928 Owners Club by making that a condition and then plastering it all over everything.

I have never been paid for maintenance to the website or for the services I provide in the installation and development of the web forum.


OK, I could be wrong, since the accounting posted for members to see is just one line genreic info, I may have mistakenly assumed who the $480 a year for "Web Hosting etc" is sent too. If that is not you, please enlighten us as to why we are paying that yearly sum to someone else if you have "never been paid" as you vaguely imply.

You see Stan, you are playing that game of "words" I never said anything about maintenance to the website or for the services"... I said HOSTING SERVICE...and someone is being paid for that according to the 928OC Expense report...again, if not you, who? and if you are graciaously doing it all for free..WHY is the OC spending $480 a year for nothing?

Don't intentionally mislead people. Seems to be a trend of yours, mislead then say that isn't what you meant.


See above, it's your "trend" not mine.

Whomever takes on the website maintenance if Andrew wins, is welcome to take off my business name.


OH, so if YOUR Candidate wins, the Excell advertising stays.... and you will continue to help the 928OC with website stuff....BUT, if Andrew wins you take your ball and go home and refuse to help the 928OC.....I understand more and more each post you make....so do many others.

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23 Aug 2012 18:32 #10500 by DR928
Replied by DR928 on topic I need everyone I've helped to help

So, because I am the only one willing to run the election, I should lose my right to speak about my record? Rather than question the dishonesty about my record, I should sit back and allow others to disparage it, along with my moral character?

Quite a big load you want me to carry Dave. I have been carrying the load for 9 years. I don't want any pity. I don't even want appreciation. I want the 928 OC to be recognized for what it is. A *thriving* financially sound club that grew 40% in two years. It is being maliciously maligned based on fiction, and you are supporting that.

No, I will not give up my right to speak out simply because I took on the load of running the elections. Again, the elections would *not* exist *ever* were it not for my initiative and efforts. The people on the sidelines questioning it all, will quickly quiet down again when volunteers are sought. It happened just 2 years ago.

Those who have worked with me on the 928 OC board, and that includes you Dave, have *not* offered to work an election or nomination.

Sorry, but your expectations, as many of the "would be" members is laughable. I have been here for 9 years, and those who come through when there is work to be done are *very* few. I treasure those people, and will defend them quite vigorously.

I will *not* give my right to speak out in exchange for being some kind of worker drone for the 928 OC.


Stan,

You asked the question, and I answered it honestly, period.

NOBODY here has disparaged your character, we were trying to let you know YOU WHERE.

Fine, you are too good to not speak out at the expense of the 928OC, your choice, but you and the 928OC are reaping the "rewards" of that decision.

I do like how you selectively tout the last 2 years, what about the 7 before? It seems you want to take credit for the "40% increase" that is clearly as you even say, James doing as Membership Chair (thanks James).

I have been trying to tell you that a lot of the reason you lack volunteers is because of your attitude. You have personally "ran off" top level 928 people who DID volunteer to help, did what they were asked to do and then blown off. Sadly the OC has lost a lot of great 928 people because of how you treat and act towards them. I have tried to tell you this in a constructive way and even blamed it on your length of service, not you.

I know you say you don't remember the discussion of updating the front end of the website when I was a trustee..remember or not, you got defensive as if we were insulting the current look and shut it down before we even had a chance to volunteer.

I do find it interesting you seem to DEMAND worker drones and jump all over anyone that even good heartedly questions your decisions and actions, but yet refuse to temporarily give up spewing negativity for the good of the 928OC during a short election cycle.

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23 Aug 2012 18:45 #10501 by DR928
Replied by DR928 on topic I need everyone I've helped to help

This sounds like a dream you had Dave.


Nice Stan. You are obviously clueless and know nothing about this. Ed Ruiz knows, Leonard Laub knows, so do many others. The only dreaming around here is from you.

I have no idea what vendor you are referring to.


That is right, you don't, so in perfect "Stan style" you say I am dreaming.

It took me many years to get 928 Int'l to consider an involvement at Sharktoberfest,

928 International was fully behind the OC when I was one of the ones in control.. Wonder why it took you years to get them to accept money for Sharktoberfest?? Most anyone else could have done that with one phone call.

Devek never came on board because of the bad blood that existed before I took on this role.


I won't speak to that, but you if you really knew ANYTHING about this, then you would be in my "dream" too.

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23 Aug 2012 19:19 #10502 by DR928
Replied by DR928 on topic I need everyone I've helped to help

Thanks Austin, that is what I have heard, the valve caps are a nice addition, and the duffel bag is wonderful for carrying the 928 essential emergency kit. The first aid kit is similarly nice. And contrary to Dave's opinion of us buying off members, each item is a recruiting tool, as members are reminded of just 1 of the things the 928 OC does, and can easily share it with prospective member. Similarly the mementos that each sponsored event must provide with our logo, reminds members what we have done. I was told the collection display at the OCIC was quite impressive.

Forgive me for point out, all of these methods are a way of building the club and providing value to members.


Do members who sign up really want to spend $19,000 plus (2004-2009) on "gifts" back to them on their dues of $53,000 plus(2004-2009) and think this is best use of their dues for furthering 928 Ownership?? AND, this has netted us 3 years after this spending for a grand total of now only 500-600 Members.OMG?? I shudder to think what the spending for 2010-2012 was.

If they say they are OK with that, I will never mention it again.

Do members really think spending this $19,000(2004-2009) plus VERSUS spending only $18,000 plus(2004-2009) sponsoring 928 Events is OK??

Again, If they say they are OK with that, I will never mention it again.

Disclaimer or "Data Point": Sponsorship spent was $21,000 plus if you add the $3500 sponsorship money for the 2004, 2006, and 2009 Owners Club International Conventions. Still makes it $19,000 for gifts versus $21,000 for Event Sponsorships.

Do members really feel this is the best way to spend these funds?? Especially when we only have 2 Loaner Tools, total costing less than $700 or so.

Personally I would think a SharkTuner (just a wild example, not a suggestion) in every region... would be better than $1800+ worth of "Tireclocks", $4100+ worth of Duffle Bags and T-shirts, $2700+ of Keychains, $1800 for Caps, $1200 for Cupholders, and on and on (just for 2004-2009).

Again, this is just my opinion, and Stan feel free to data check me on this, FWIW I didn't trust my memory to add it up, someone did it for me.

It is the Members Club, and honestly if the majority of the Members truly feel this type of fiscal responsibility is OK with them, and is how they want to use their combined resources and dues to Further and Enhance 928 Ownership and to support the Porsche 928 for the future..fine, again, I will never speak of it again..and will accept that and STFU forever.

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23 Aug 2012 19:46 #10504 by srshaw3
Replied by srshaw3 on topic I need everyone I've helped to help
Just to clarify for anyone not clearly paying attention. Dave is attempting to prosecute me, primarily for his lack of knowledge, and involvement in the club. One should note I am not running for a board position. Does anyone question why Dave came to this discussion?

Is it to provide details of how Andrew will succeed? Is it to apologize for having done nothing, even when on the board, to initiate or develop programs. No, Dave is simply here to prosecute me, without any basis.

I do not remember that, and as the loudest proponent of having no advertising on the 928OC website, I remember it very differently. I do remember you being offered to be listed in the "Vendor Directory" that is all.

But, even if you think you remember it otherwise, or even if I remember it wrong, it sure shows your pure dedication to the 928 Owners Club by making that a condition and then plastering it all over everything.


You can review all the archives Dave, I was just a member and offered the 928 OC a deep discount to develop a website. The offer was contingent on my listing my business on all pages, as we do for many customers. Ed Ruiz agreed. You probably don't recall, as your involvement was nearly always missing. That is why Leonard Laub approached me to take on the job.

Again, just an attack on my character, without fact, and having nothing to do with the election.

OK, I could be wrong, since the accounting posted for members to see is just one line genreic info, I may have mistakenly assumed who the $480 a year for "Web Hosting etc" is sent too. If that is not you, please enlighten us as to why we are paying that yearly sum to someone else if you have "never been paid" as you vaguely imply.


I didn't vaguely imply anything Dave. You just need to *read* what I wrote, it was as clear as I provide on our invoices. I said:
"I have never been paid for maintenance to the website or for the services I provide in the installation and development of the web forum"

We have always charged for hosting, and have never adjusted the value of the hosting since the agreement, when I was *not* president. You and Ed agreed to the hosting fee. In my version of a "blind trust" there has been no change to that charge regardless of the disk space it took up.

Again, just an attack on my character, without fact, and having nothing to do with the election.

You see Stan, you are playing that game of "words" I never said anything about maintenance to the website or for the services"... I said HOSTING SERVICE...and someone is being paid for that according to the 928OC Expense report...again, if not you, who? and if you are graciaously doing it all for free..WHY is the OC spending $480 a year for nothing?

See above, it's your "trend" not mine.


I am sorry that you are having difficult understanding the words I am saying, but it is your memory that is lacking.

Anyone bothering to consider facts would wonder why, in all you years of support of the 928 OC, and your time on the 928 OC board, you never asked these questions. Well, it is clear to any rational being that you have chosen to try and twist your memory as it suits you. Really Dave, with all your dedication to the 928 OC, why do you bring this up now, when you *were* in the position of *trustee* and it was then your duty to question it. This is further evidence of how you are trying to have a positive approach, right? Attack Brad without even a nominal understanding of what you speak. And of course full bore at me. Dave, admit it, you are simply trying to tear down what you yourself could not do.

Again, just an attack on my character, without fact, and having nothing to do with the election.

OH, so if YOUR Candidate wins, the Excell advertising stays.... and you will continue to help the 928OC with website stuff....BUT, if Andrew wins you take your ball and go home and refuse to help the 928OC.....I understand more and more each post you make....so do many others.


There has never been a desire on my part to work with Andrew. The board has known this for at least two years. To imply I need to stay on, or "I am taking my ball and going home" is attempting to treat me as a slave to the 928 OC. I have stated many times I want to retire.

Dave, you were super moderator once, and I am sure you have endeared all the members who are reading your tirades, so perhaps *YOU* will step up and do the forum and website work. You don't need me. You can step up and put some time in. Time you have *never* put in to this club, unless at an event promoting your business.

If James wants me to take down the advertising, I will be happy to do so. I have not held the site captive, there hasn't been anyone, including you Dave, who would step forward to do just that one part of what I do. MIA is what Brad said, and it is on target.

I fully expect the site to move away if Andrew wins, and that is fine. It is an over serviced and under valued customer.

Just another character attack Dave. You keep working on it, when you move your "fact" game up to the A level you might have a chance with me. Otherwise I will just keep taking you apart fictitious statement after statement.

Good to see you showing up so suddenly to add a *positive* atmosphere to the environment.

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23 Aug 2012 19:51 #10505 by srshaw3
Replied by srshaw3 on topic I need everyone I've helped to help

Stan,

You asked the question, and I answered it honestly, period.

NOBODY here has disparaged your character, we were trying to let you know YOU WHERE.

Fine, you are too good to not speak out at the expense of the 928OC, your choice, but you and the 928OC are reaping the "rewards" of that decision.

I do like how you selectively tout the last 2 years, what about the 7 before? It seems you want to take credit for the "40% increase" that is clearly as you even say, James doing as Membership Chair (thanks James).

I have been trying to tell you that a lot of the reason you lack volunteers is because of your attitude. You have personally "ran off" top level 928 people who DID volunteer to help, did what they were asked to do and then blown off. Sadly the OC has lost a lot of great 928 people because of how you treat and act towards them. I have tried to tell you this in a constructive way and even blamed it on your length of service, not you.

I know you say you don't remember the discussion of updating the front end of the website when I was a trustee..remember or not, you got defensive as if we were insulting the current look and shut it down before we even had a chance to volunteer.

I do find it interesting you seem to DEMAND worker drones and jump all over anyone that even good heartedly questions your decisions and actions, but yet refuse to temporarily give up spewing negativity for the good of the 928OC during a short election cycle.


What rewards do you think I reap Dave, wasting my time refuting your baseless lies?
Name on of the volunteers Dave, more fiction from you.
No one that has offered to volunteer has ever met with your fictitious lying statement. You are probably referring to people like yourself Dave, who criticize the cheap seats. Like you who want me to run the election and shut up, they just want me to do their bidding. If Andrew wins, it will be so interesting to see who is still volunteering just 1 year from now.

Just another character attack Dave, good to see you so positive.

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23 Aug 2012 19:55 #10506 by srshaw3
Replied by srshaw3 on topic I need everyone I've helped to help

Nice Stan. You are obviously clueless and know nothing about this. Ed Ruiz knows, Leonard Laub knows, so do many others. The only dreaming around here is from you.



That is right, you don't, so in perfect "Stan style" you say I am dreaming.



928 International was fully behind the OC when I was one of the ones in control.. Wonder why it took you years to get them to accept money for Sharktoberfest?? Most anyone else could have done that with one phone call.



I won't speak to that, but you if you really knew ANYTHING about this, then you would be in my "dream" too.


You are completely delusional.
You offer no facts to back your claims, just further character assassination, because it is all you have. And a failed memory.
Just more lies and another attack on the person *not* running for election.

Anymore fiction you want to spew?

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23 Aug 2012 20:08 #10507 by srshaw3
Replied by srshaw3 on topic I need everyone I've helped to help

Do members who sign up really want to spend $19,000 plus (2004-2009) on "gifts" back to them on their dues of $53,000 plus(2004-2009) and think this is best use of their dues for furthering 928 Ownership?? AND, this has netted us 3 years after this spending for a grand total of now only 500-600 Members.OMG?? I shudder to think what the spending for 2010-2012 was.

If they say they are OK with that, I will never mention it again.


40% increase in membership in 2 years, since Andrew ran last time, it says what we are doing is working
Your record? You took members money once, mailed some of them shirts and then did nothing, except sponsor the Frenzy yearly, where you promoted your *new* 928 business. I won't say what most people will call this, but the it is clear.

Again a question, that has nothing to do with the campaign. Why not ask Andrew *and* James what they will do.

Do members really think spending this $19,000(2004-2009) plus VERSUS spending only $18,000 plus(2004-2009) sponsoring 928 Events is OK??

Again, If they say they are OK with that, I will never mention it again.


With all the complaining you are doing now, it is clear it was never a problem to you, when on the board *you* voted in favor of these proposals.

Ask Andrew what he will do, because he isn't saying....

40% growth would say that yes it is ok with them.


Disclaimer or "Data Point": Sponsorship spent was $21,000 plus if you add the $3500 sponsorship money for the 2004, 2006, and 2009 Owners Club International Conventions. Still makes it $19,000 for gifts versus $21,000 for Event Sponsorships.

Do members really feel this is the best way to spend these funds?? Especially when we only have 2 Loaner Tools, total costing less than $700 or so.

Personally I would think a SharkTuner (just a wild example, not a suggestion) in every region... would be better than $1800+ worth of "Tireclocks", $4100+ worth of Duffle Bags and T-shirts, $2700+ of Keychains, $1800 for Caps, $1200 for Cupholders, and on and on (just for 2004-2009).

Again, this is just my opinion, and Stan feel free to data check me on this, FWIW I didn't trust my memory to add it up, someone did it for me.

It is the Members Club, and honestly if the majority of the Members truly feel this type of fiscal responsibility is OK with them, and is how they want to use their combined resources and dues to Further and Enhance 928 Ownership and to support the Porsche 928 for the future..fine, again, I will never speak of it again..and will accept that and STFU forever.


Well, Dave, just another example of your ignorance. The shark tuner is under utilized, we definitely do not need more than one. It sits idle most of the year with Greg Nichols, ready to be shipped to anyone that asks, and I tell everyone that approaches me for an event. We have even loaned it to individual members, even though that was not the plan.

Dave, only you are complaining. Well Andrew complained because he didn't have information, Gary provided it to him in 2010, and then this year he again stated he had never seen the financials. I guess his memory is as lacking as yours is.

No complaints from members Dave, just you, an founder and former trustee, who took no initiatives, or cared about any of the issues until now. Of course this is designed to promote a positive environment.

And of course still having nothing to do with the election.

Crawl back under your rock Dave.

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24 Aug 2012 00:04 #10523 by Kiln_Red
Replied by Kiln_Red on topic I need everyone I've helped to help
I am closing this thread as it is clear this thread has become a battleground between two posters. Continue your conversation privately if it is going to include these kinds of attacks.

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