Importing a '92 EURO 928 GTS, by James Morrison

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04 Nov 2012 15:30 #12292 by pcar928fan
Replied by pcar928fan on topic Importing a '92 EURO 928 GTS, by James Morrison
Thanks Austin, my thought was that this would also be fully posted (Perhaps below the pics) so that the article could be read online right here and then folks could comment below it. If they CHOSE to download it then they could do that too or in lieu of reading it here while connected... Can we make that happen?

James
78 Silver / Black-white #295
84 Ruby Red / Black AO84
88 Dark Blue / Linen-Black
92 Polar Silver / Dark Blue 92EURO
93 Arrow Blue / Black

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04 Nov 2012 17:01 #12298 by Kiln_Red
James, yeah, I don't think that should be any big deal. Might take a little time. I'll see what I can do when I get the chance.

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04 Nov 2012 17:31 #12299 by Jon B.
I remember when this one came to the Morrison Collection. Cool car.

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11 Nov 2012 14:09 #12500 by JWise

Thanks Austin, my thought was that this would also be fully posted (Perhaps below the pics) so that the article could be read online right here and then folks could comment below it. If they CHOSE to download it then they could do that too or in lieu of reading it here while connected... Can we make that happen?


Cut and paste, man! ;)

Importing a ’92 EURO 928 GTS


By James Morrison, HCR President

So, you have been watching the www.mobile.de site and are pining for a cheap Porsche (or BMW, M/B, Audi, etc.) from Germany. The cars look good, the miles are a bit high, but you can live with it, and the prices are too good to be true! Wait before you send your money to Germany. Read this first!

As many of you already know I am a huge 928 fan. Everyone asks me how many is enough? Ultimately, I would like to have one of each model year produced. That would make 18 928's in total. Yes, I know it is a crazy idea, but I think it would be the most complete 928 collection in the world. The big problem is finding a place to park them all. The other problem was what to do about 1992GTS.

A little history might be in order here. The 928 was introduced in 1977 as a 1978 model and won the European car of the year award for that year. It was produced in just the one model for the US market from 1978 to 1981. In 1982 there was also an "S" model available. The Europeans got an "S" model in 1980 and it was much more powerful than the US base model, so many Porsche fans brought these 300HP Euro models in and had them converted into US specification. These cars are known as "gray market" cars. The level of conversion varied widely depending on who did the conversion. There were few regulations in this industry, so it was easy for shoddy workmanship to get through.

Towards the middle of the 1980's, the exchange rate became less favorable and the performance gap lessened with the 32V 288HP 1985 928 model. The 928-import market was dying. In 1987, Porsche introduced the 982S4. In the summer of 1986, an S4 was brought to the salt flats in Nevada and set a production car land speed record of 171.172 mph! This record was only recently broken, though there were cars in the mid 1990's with those capabilities. Another interesting thing other than the performance of the S4 was this was the first "world" car for Porsche. In other words all the motors were the same and only very minor detail changes were made from country to country to make it legal for that market. The relatively large number of S4's produced, their pricing on the used car market, as well as their performance, make these some of the very best used Porsche's to buy today.

For the 1992 model year the ultimate 928 was introduced! The GTS was only available in Europe in its first model year. There were many left over 1991 S4's and GT's (the 5 spd version of the S4) left on dealer floors and if the GTS was brought in those would become particularly difficult to sell.

The GTS was a big step forward, maybe even bigger than the S4 over the S. The GTS has a 5.4L double overhead cam 4V per cylinder engine, still made from Aluminum and containing some VERY strong parts (much more so than the S4) making them VERY robust. The cars make 346HP and 369 lb-ft of torque. The automatic will do 0-60 in 5.6 seconds and the 5-speed will do the same in 5.5. They will cover the quarter mile in 14.1 seconds at 99 mph for the auto and 13.7 at 102 for the 5-speed. These cars will top out right at 180 mph! They weigh 3600 pounds so they are not light, but they are super stable at high speeds and you can drive them all day long in comfort! There were approximately 200 1992 GTS's built for the ROW (Rest Of World, or markets other than North America). Other design changes from S4 to GTS were flared rear fenders, and more aerodynamic rear view mirrors. Seven-teen inch wheels were standard. The GTS also benefits from bigger brakes. You may be familiar with "Big Reds". Well, they should be "Big Blacks" as they first appeared on the 1992 GTS and they were painted black!

The 1993 GTS was brought to the USA and was identical to the euro 1992 car other than the required tidbits that the EPA and DOT force us to put on our cars here in the states. The price was roughly the same as it had been for the 1991 S4/GT (again a good reason to forego selling the 1992 model year in the US) starting at $83,000 (well appointed). There were approximately 190 1993 928 GTS's built for the US (I have no statistics for ROW production).

In 1994 and 1995 the only change was to the 993 style wheel (though they should be called the GTS style as they preceded the 993) and the tire pressure monitor system was dropped. In 1994 there were about 139 GTS's brought to the USA and in 1995 there were less than 77. Depending on whom you ask, some of these numbers will be different. I have tried to verify the real numbers of GTS's for each year and I am sure that someone in Porsche Cars North America and/or PCAG knows the answer, but I have not come across them yet. If I ever find out the real truth behind the build numbers of GTS's I will be sure to let everyone know.

So, now you can see if I really want to collect all the model years of the 928 I will have to get my own 1992 into the USA, so that is what I proceeded to do. Here is the story.

When I found out my best friend and 928 owner Elliott Nowacky was moving to Germany with the military, the plan started to come together. We talked at length and began looking at various German used car web sites for "the car". I knew it would have to be in good condition and that it would have to be a 1992 model and that he would have to be able to check it out fully.

The plan was for us to visit in the summer of 2000 and to have the car ready for me to drive for at least part of our trip at that time. (Horizons, September 2000)

The prices on the EURO GTS's are very favorable right now and I knew that most all 928's meet emission standards easily. So, I figured that I would change the head lights, tail lights, add some rear bumper pads to the car as well as the bumper shocks, a US speedo, confirm DOT tires and glass, and be home free. Well, it is a much bigger task than that.

Things in the import world changed drastically towards the end of the 1980's. Our federal government was not happy with the kinds of cars that were being brought in from outside the USA and they wanted to have their hand in making sure these cars were up to our standards. Not to mention they probably would like a hand in the money collection. They established a protocol for businesses interested in importing cars to become "Registered Importers". There were EPA and DOT certifications that these RI's would have to meet, and they would have to be open for inspection at any time, and would be required to purchase very expensive and very sophisticated testing equipment. Today there are roughly 125 RI's all across the US. Some will work with cars, some will not, and some will only work with cars from Canada or Mexico. Others will accept euro cars, buses, trucks, motorcycles, etc.

continued...

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11 Nov 2012 14:11 #12501 by JWise
continued from above...

When I first started looking into this importation there were only eight RI's listed on the DOT web site. Only one had a web site. I was lucky! They happened to be on the west side of Houston, Texas! So, I contacted Wallace Environmental Testing Labs and talked to them about the project.

They had done some 928's in the past, but never a newer one. They knew the regulations that they had to meet but did not know the specifics of the car. I knew this would be a problem as it would be unlikely that they would have a clue how expensive the parts are or where they could find them without going to a dealer. I knew I could either get the parts we needed from an after-market supplier or, at worst, take them off of my 1994 US GTS and have them put on the 1992 car.

The first estimate I got from Wallace was $8,203 based on a vehicle valuation of $15,000.

This total does not include (and is thus noted on the contract) catalyst replacement, glass replacement, mechanical repair, or tire replacement if any of the above are needed.

The glaring problem I saw right off the bat was in the $1,900 for DOT requirements. I am no rocket scientist, but I knew that lights alone would be about $1,200 for a 928 and then you have bumper shocks, bumper pads, third brake light, gauge cluster ($$$), and who knows what else to replaceŠ$1,900 was not even going to be close!

Knowing that the price could escalate quickly if I left it to them, they agreed to let me supply the parts required.

Plans in place, I wired $19,900 to Germany to purchase the car on February 22, 2000 . We were forced into a tight schedule because Elliott was about to go to Kazakhstan for three months and when he got back we would have less than 5 weeks to complete a purchase if we did not buy this car. Instead of getting in a bind, we proceeded a little early and bought this Polar silver 1992 GTS. Had we been able to find a car when he got back from the deployment it would have saved several thousands of dollars as the exchange rate became even more favorable and the prices temporarily dropped on GTS's. Alas, we had taken care of it all, and hindsight is 20/20.

We vacationed all over southern Germany, Austria, Switzerland, and Slovenia in the summer as planned and I ran the GTS up to 165 mph on a portion of autobahn less friendly than I-35 on a good day. (see Horizons, August/Sept. 2000)
September 19, 2000 the car was dropped off in Bad Aibling, Germany for its direct trip to Port of Houston. On October 20, the car arrived. Shipping charges and insurance were $1,070. That is a bargain in my book! I paid $950 cash to have my 1994 GTS shipped from San Diego to my door in Round Rock four years ago.

Because I was providing the majority of parts for the car, WETL took $1,000 off of the DOT estimate. Still not even close to the cost of the parts I provided.

WETL took possession of the car and really did not do anything with it until mid-December. At that point they looked the car over for its sound running condition and gave a cursory check of the emissions equipment. They also administered an initial EPA test to see how the car looked. It was not pretty. The car was a long way from the emissions numbers it was going to have to meet for them. They let the car sit for a bit and worked on other projects and then towards the end of January they took another look.

They tuned up and checked out all the emissions parts and all were working fine. They checked the tail pipe again and still it was way out. We talked and it all became clear to me. The car does not have to pass the emissions test that any other 1992 car in Houston (or CA, or Dallas, etc.) would have to pass, but instead when a car is imported it is required to pass the test as if it is a brand new 1992 car! I was told if the car has more than about 10,000 miles on the catalytic converter that a new OEM unit will be required.

How can this be, I wondered? If you think about it, however, it makes sense; the factory is forced to meet very tough standards and they barely over build an expensive converter. The after-market has very mild regulations to meet (remember as a car gets older it is allowed to pollute much more), so the cats are much cheaper. Les Weaver of WETL told me he has tested many different kinds of cats on BMW's, M/B's, etc, etc and that none of them work. He told me he would put on whatever I sent but not to expect much from anything other than a factory unit.

I was crushed. Do you have any idea how much a Porsche 928 catalytic converter costs? Try $3,000!!! As you can see this totally blows any profit, or cost savings out of the water. Well, almost anyway. My good friend Mark Anderson came to the rescue here. Apparently he had bought out the 928 stock from someone going out of business and there in the midst of all those parts was a brand new, never-used cat. He made me an awesome deal and sold it to me for $995! This was a huge break for me, and I will appreciate it always.

How about the other parts? Well, I took the headlights, blinker lenses, and driving lights off my 1994 car and shipped them to WETL. I also included the proper H5 connectors knowing that the H4 connector for the EURO lights is different. That was a savings of nearly $1,000. I had used bumper shocks sent (about $35 each, four needed) and the rear bumper pads from my S4 sent as well.

Then there is the gauge cluster. On the early 928's you could just take out the speedometer and put in a new one. On the 1989-and-newer cars it is integrated into one housing with all the gauges in it and you can not separate them. This "pod" is $1,000! Mark Anderson to the rescue again. He has parted out more than 400 928's over the last 10 years or so and just happened to have a pod that would suit my needs that he would "rent" to me for a $300 deposit. This would not normally be the case but this pod had a broken temp and voltage gauge, so it was not useful to him unless he sent it out for repair.

Overall the work done on the car was excellent, but the trip over took its toll on the paint as I don't remember it so scratched when I left it in Germany last summer. Also, now that I understand the system better I can tell you that unless you have someone you can totally trust looking at a car for you in the first place and can get an awesome deal on it, then don't buy it as an investment! I tell 928 fans all the time, "If you find the exact color car that you have always dreamed of and it is over in Germany and they have someone they trust check it out and it seems good then go ahead, but don't plan on getting your money out of it, ever!"

So how much did this project finally end up costing? Well, the car was $19,950, WETL took $7,275, I had some body work done for $1750, $1070 in shipping, $875 for A/C repair, and I paid about $1500 for various parts but $300 of that is reimbursable for a total of: $32,120. This is about what you would expect to pay for a 1993 US GTS in the same condition, so I saved no money, but I do have the ONLY 1992 GTS in the USA! Like I said if I had been able to wait a bit longer I could have saved roughly $5000 on the cost of the car. I would have then been on the positive side of the cost versus value equation, but you never know about that till it passes you by most of the time. If I had not been able to get parts off a car I already owned or been so lucky with the parts I did have to purchase I could easily have spent another $5000 on parts. If that had happened the car would have cost way more than its value as a GTS. I now tell prospective 928 GTS importers to plan on spending $15,000 on a conversion to US specification. I had originally anticipated less than $7000.

Something to understand about German cars is that they will have many more miles than their USA counterparts, and those miles may be a bit harder. This is not usually a problem for Porsche cars as this was what they were designed for, but lesser cars might not fare so well. Also, the weather in Germany is more like far northern states or even Canada and they don't have any qualms about using salt to melt ice on German roads, so there could be some rust.

What about importing newer cars? Say a GT3 or a GT2? Well, WETL has two GT3's that may have to be sent back to Germany. They have applied to DOT for clearance to convert the cars to US specification and Porsche AG and PCNA have both sent letters to DOT saying the cars are not "readily convertible" to US specification. This is laughable, considering they have successfully converted 959's to US specs. The real deal is that Porsche does not want you to have access in any way to a GT3 for some reason. I guess they figure if anyone is going to make money on importing a GT3 it is going to be them!

The GT2 should be less problematic as it will be a US spec car courtesy of PCNA in the first place. But any car built after 1995 will have to meet the OBDII (On Board Diagnostics II) specifications and few (if any) EURO cars are wired for that. This requires the engine be removed, various sensors installed, and some new wiring harnesses made, along with the appropriate warning lights to let you know when something goes wrong. For instance a 1996 993 was imported by a renowned Houston heart surgeon with WETL doing the work, and the conversion cost was over $22,000! That is way beyond any cost savings that might have been anticipated. So how much would a GT2 cost to import?

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11 Nov 2012 14:12 #12502 by JWise
continued from above...

Duties are assessed based on valuation of the car. Since my duties were about $1000, and the value of my car was 1/10th that of a GT2 (they say you will be able to buy them in Germany for about $145k) then they will have $10,000 in duty alone. Add to that a minimum of $30,000 for conversion to US spec and you are looking at about the cost of a US car from the local dealer. The problem is that they say only 162 will come to the USA over the next two years. So maybe you will see some gray market GT2's in the USA. WETL has already done several Z8 BMW's, and Ferrari 355 Spider F1's, so for the high end cars there may be a little room to work out a EURO import.

When ever I tell this story folks say, "Well, I guess you won't be bringing in any more 928's from Germany." That is not necessarily true. There are two cars I am looking for in Germany. I believe both are 1995 models and one is Riviera Blue (kind of like the original Mazda Miata Blue) and the other is Speed Yellow. The pictures I have of these cars show a license plate that starts with "S" (indicating Stuttgart as the registered location) and it is my belief that these were likely Porsche AG executive cars. If either one comes on the market, expect to see my 1994 GTS for sale. The possible exception is if the owner in Houston would like to sell his 1995 928 GTS that is also speed yellow. Some of you may remember this car as a spectator at last years PorscheDillo concours event. If anyone has a picture of the car or knows the owner I would love to talk to them. It is yellow with yellow wheels, black interior with yellow piping and wood trim. I have never seen a picture of a US spec Riviera Blue GTS!

In closing, there are some spectacular deals on German cars, and with the benefit of a favorable exchange rate there are probably some deals to be made. However, if you are going to do this, be sure you go in with eyes wide open and expect the car to be more scratched when it arrives and for it to cost much more than anticipated when it is all done. If you buy wisely and choose a reputable RI you can possibly save a few dollars on a really nice car and maybe even go to Germany and enjoy it before you ship it back. Of course you might have to wait more than 10 months for the car to be finished. The easiest way to experience this however is to check the box for European delivery when you go down to Roger Beasley and place an order for a new Porsche. Then you can just sit back and let PCNA and PCAG take care of all the red tape!

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11 Nov 2012 22:05 #12513 by pcar928fan
Replied by pcar928fan on topic Importing a '92 EURO 928 GTS, by James Morrison
J-Rod that works just fine!

Hope you enjoyed the article! Good times with that car! It is a real sweetheart to drive. Some of my cars just really speak to me and this is the main one that whispers in my ear. I think the '95 will be its undoing though... Faster and when/if Paul can get to some NICE interior upgrades for it that will be my go to beast I think!

BTW, if you guys with S4's and GTS's have not tried getting your front and rear tires close to the same width you REALLY ought to give that a shot. I am running PanAm take offs (the base 18" 5spoke wheel) on the '95 with 245 up front and 255 out back and MY GOD to I love the feel of this car! Better turn in b/c of the bigger front tires and less understeer (thus better balance) b/c of the nearly same width rears! If you have driven some OB's or S's w/o spacers then you already know what I am talking about...

James
78 Silver / Black-white #295
84 Ruby Red / Black AO84
88 Dark Blue / Linen-Black
92 Polar Silver / Dark Blue 92EURO
93 Arrow Blue / Black

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12 Nov 2012 08:48 #12520 by the flying scotsman
Replied by the flying scotsman on topic Importing a '92 EURO 928 GTS, by James Morrison
Great story James but theres even more to be told of the Model year.

While it is accurate that Porsche did not have a GTS for the US market in 1992 they did for the Rest of world including Canada.......I know I own one.

Canadian 928s are essentially North American spec with a few interesting details; no rear air, heated seats are std spec, kilometer speedo as in ROW. My car was sold new in Montreal, Canada May 1992, is Polar silver and is a 5 speed.

Gotta wonder if our cars were brothers on the line James?

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12 Nov 2012 21:24 #12529 by pcar928fan
Replied by pcar928fan on topic Importing a '92 EURO 928 GTS, by James Morrison
Malcolm did I SAY they didn't make any other '92's??? NOOOOOOOO.... You REALLY HATE that I have the only '92 VIN GTS in the US don't you Malcolm??? LOL! You should go buy one yourself man, then you can say you have one of a handful in N. America, because there are a few actual '92's (vs. your build date contention on your car) in Canada. I think they came from Japan for the most part.

What is the VIN on your car M? 10th digit in the VIN is a "P" I suspect so according to Porsche it actually is a '93. Oh, yea just like almost every Porsche built it was built the calendar year before its model year... '92 build, '93 model year. Remember only about HALF of any given model year are actually built in that calendar year and while they did start the '93 MY early, all the '92's were already built and since mine is 118 it was a VERY EARLY '92. They would not have even been close to each other on the line. Especially since mine was built in October of '91! OMG, I have a '91 GTS! $hit, I have the ONLY '91 GTS ever built I guess...other than the 117 built before it and whatever was built in NOV and DEC! ROTFLMAO!

M you crack me up with your MY argument every time you bring it up! Thanks for brightening my day man!

Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled program...There should be an edit on that too, as I had thought only 200-ish '92 GTS's were made but the number according to Erkka was 933 or something like that. Just a bit over 900 anyway, making it the most numerous MY of the GTS run.

James
78 Silver / Black-white #295
84 Ruby Red / Black AO84
88 Dark Blue / Linen-Black
92 Polar Silver / Dark Blue 92EURO
93 Arrow Blue / Black

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13 Nov 2012 08:14 #12532 by the flying scotsman
Replied by the flying scotsman on topic Importing a '92 EURO 928 GTS, by James Morrison
HATE is a very strong word James and I for one would never use it in a conversation.

My point is nothing to do with you or your car............in fact I dont even care why Porsche US didnt import the GTS into your country in 1992.

The fact is that many other worldwide countries did import the 1992 GTS.

Your car is a Euro my car is not............what makes them a 1992..........when they sold. ( btw, yes I have components with '91 date stamps)

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13 Nov 2012 19:43 #12538 by pcar928fan
Replied by pcar928fan on topic Importing a '92 EURO 928 GTS, by James Morrison
What makes a car a '92 is what it was registered as by the manufacturer Malcolm! If it was when they were sold, then I'll take that last US GTS which would then be the ONLY '97 928 GTS EVER (there was also one sold in '96 as well for the first time according to PCNA)! What year a car is has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with when it was sold... If it were when it was sold then my car WOULD BE a '91 GTS, but nope just look at the VIN... Yup VIN says '92!

You still crack me up dude! No idea where you get this bizarre idea that a car is the MY of the year it was sold in...maybe 50+ years ago that was the case, but it has never been the case in my lifetime.

James
78 Silver / Black-white #295
84 Ruby Red / Black AO84
88 Dark Blue / Linen-Black
92 Polar Silver / Dark Blue 92EURO
93 Arrow Blue / Black

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13 Nov 2012 20:25 #12541 by pcar928fan
Replied by pcar928fan on topic Importing a '92 EURO 928 GTS, by James Morrison
Malcolm, here is another example for you....

A few years ago (may have even been the late '90's) what does Carroll Shelby uncover? About 75 registered frames for his iconic Cobra! Over the next many years all of these cars were built in to ACTUAL cars (remember they were simply BARE FRAMES, but registered when they took them out of storage). What MY are these cars? '99, '00, '05... NOPE! Every one of them is a 1965 Cobra! They only have to meet '65 emissions and crash standards even, despite the fact they were being completed more than 30 years later.

Soooo, the moral of the story (regardless of if you like the story or not) is that not only does the original SALE date have nothing to do with the MY of the car, but even the BUILD date does not have anything to do with the MY of the car. Hence my '91 build GTS being a '92 and your '92 build being a '93 and these 2000 build Cobra's being 1965 MY cars!

I know its crazy, but it is what it is.

James
78 Silver / Black-white #295
84 Ruby Red / Black AO84
88 Dark Blue / Linen-Black
92 Polar Silver / Dark Blue 92EURO
93 Arrow Blue / Black

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14 Nov 2012 08:25 #12547 by Kiln_Red
James, you are correct as far as it concerns US cars. Other countries do things differently. Not sure if Canada is one of them, but I am absolutely sure some European countries determine MY by the original sale date, registration date, or whatever...

For example, somewhere in Europe there apparently exists a 2000 model 928 GT. If the car were titled in the US, it would be determined a '91. But because of the laws of the land where it was first titled, it is now considered a 2000. Wish I remembered more details of the story. There was a thread about it on RL.

Anyway, my point is that you and Malcolm may both be right. If his GTS were originally titled in the US, it may very possibly be considered a '93. I don't truthfully know. However, since Canada apparently determines a car's MY based on the year it is originally owned, it is titled as a '92.

Hope this is helpful. Originally, I was just going to keep my mouth shut as this is James' thread.

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14 Nov 2012 20:21 #12554 by the flying scotsman
Replied by the flying scotsman on topic Importing a '92 EURO 928 GTS, by James Morrison
thx Austin........at last a voice of reason.

I have lived in many countries of this world and James you have met me and know by my accent its not a North American country.

A cars model year is exactly the date it was sold and in my case May, 1992.

The fact that Porsche sold 928s in 1992 with either a N or a P in the VIN is moot......a clever marketing ploy as the US was flooded with prior model years? dont know, dont care............theres a whole wide world outside the USA.

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14 Nov 2012 20:29 #12555 by srshaw3
I was curious as to what I could find on the web, and a simple query asking "how is the model year of a car determined?" seems to result in a consistent response that it is the model year provided by the manufacturer.

Certainly if you are going to buy parts for a car, the parts provider doesn't care what year you bought it, or what year it was registered, they only car what model year the manufacturer considered it, and of course that is determined by the VIN.

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15 Nov 2012 17:33 #12569 by pcar928fan
Replied by pcar928fan on topic Importing a '92 EURO 928 GTS, by James Morrison
Well, up till Stan posted I had a '91 GTS... DOH! LOL! If you look at listings for cars for sale in Germany they talk about the first date of registration, but they don't say that is the MY of the car, because the cars MY is in fact determined by what the manufacturer of the car says. In fact that is the only thing that makes sense because emissions and crash standards change continually. The best example of this would be if a cars year was determined by the year it was sold, then (in the US in '95) any car left over and carrying in to '96 would have had to have been recalled and refitted with an OBDII system. That and dwindling sales are the big reasons the 928 was discontinued (same for the 968 actually). The refitting of the engines was going to be grossly expensive and of course these changes were known years in advance and Porsche chose to just build a cheaper car (Boxster) instead of trying to upgrade the 928 and 968 engines to meet the new OBDII standards.

James
78 Silver / Black-white #295
84 Ruby Red / Black AO84
88 Dark Blue / Linen-Black
92 Polar Silver / Dark Blue 92EURO
93 Arrow Blue / Black

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15 Nov 2012 18:52 #12572 by Kiln_Red
James,

I would not contest anything you just stated, nor would I contest the MY of your car. It is clearly a '92 to ANY country's standards. I am hoping one of our Canadian friends can confirm, but my understanding is that the next MY lineup is not typically available for sale until closer to the new calendar year; not like the US where we could buy a 2013 car earlier this year.

What I am getting at is that it is a little more extraordinary to have a conflict in your MY vs. the date of sale outside of the US. Certainly if you had a '86 S4 according to your title you wouldn't relay that to a parts vendor. You would call it an '87. Perhaps Malcolm's car might be a considered a '93 in the US and, of course, to Porsche. I don't know as he hasn't offered his VIN. If Canada or elsewhere considers it a '92, and that's what Malcolm wants to claim it, I'm not losing any sleep. :D

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