Euro vs US

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02 Mar 2012 13:44 #8386 by mm928
Euro vs US was created by mm928
What parts from the 16v Euro (like an 84S) can be used on the US 83S? Is it worth it to find and use them for any kind of HP gains? I had heard that you can use the heads and maybe another part or two.

I plan on adding a Y-pipe but that is about it. I am not sold on spending the bucks to supercharge it at this point. I think it runs fine right now, just want a little more. Not a lot.

1983 928S - 16v 4.7L L-Jetronic
Dark Grey w/ Blue Leather
85/86 exhaust manifolds
Y-Pipe
SS Hi-perf Cat
S4 springs
Bilstein shocks
Air pump delete
VIN: WP0JB0926DS861180
- - Isn't Life great? - -

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02 Mar 2012 14:24 #8388 by the flying scotsman
Replied by the flying scotsman on topic Euro vs US
I recall reading that everything can be cahnged although I do not have hands on experience.
crank, rods, pistons, heads etc althouh probably easier to find a complete engine.....I know where one is but along way from you:)

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02 Mar 2012 14:54 #8389 by srshaw3
Replied by srshaw3 on topic Euro vs US

What parts from the 16v Euro (like an 84S) can be used on the US 83S? Is it worth it to find and use them for any kind of HP gains? I had heard that you can use the heads and maybe another part or two.

I plan on adding a Y-pipe but that is about it. I am not sold on spending the bucks to supercharge it at this point. I think it runs fine right now, just want a little more. Not a lot.


There are a number if differences, cams, heads, and intake are commonly changed to get a modest hp gain.

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02 Mar 2012 15:05 #8390 by mm928
Replied by mm928 on topic Euro vs US
Hey thanks for the quick responses!

This is what I was thinking - then consider the alternative of just getting the original engine right and tight and adding a Murph SuperCharger instead.

928MS y-pipe and hi-flow cat
Euro Intake
Euro Cams
Euro Heads
85/86 stock headers

And does this work make the engine an interference one? Also consider I have a 30$/hr mechanic along with myself to help.

But Stan's option of a good Euro engine outright is another way to go...!

I do really like it as-is, and I am doing the y-pipe this year. So that may be enough for now, enjoy as-is for a while then see if I want more.

1983 928S - 16v 4.7L L-Jetronic
Dark Grey w/ Blue Leather
85/86 exhaust manifolds
Y-Pipe
SS Hi-perf Cat
S4 springs
Bilstein shocks
Air pump delete
VIN: WP0JB0926DS861180
- - Isn't Life great? - -

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02 Mar 2012 17:59 #8391 by pcar928fan
Replied by pcar928fan on topic Euro vs US
If you change cams alone it will become an interference engine! If you are going to put an S/C on it then I'd stick withe US 4.7 as it has a lower CR! That would make for some good fun there for sure!!! The problem I think you run in to with ANY of the earlier engines is tune-ability. The late engines you can put in programmable chips and use a Sharktuner to dial it in perfectly. Not so on the early engines!

James
78 Silver / Black-white #295
84 Ruby Red / Black AO84
88 Dark Blue / Linen-Black
92 Polar Silver / Dark Blue 92EURO
93 Arrow Blue / Black

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02 Mar 2012 18:38 #8393 by srshaw3
Replied by srshaw3 on topic Euro vs US

Hey thanks for the quick responses!

This is what I was thinking - then consider the alternative of just getting the original engine right and tight and adding a Murph SuperCharger instead.

928MS y-pipe and hi-flow cat
Euro Intake
Euro Cams
Euro Heads
85/86 stock headers

And does this work make the engine an interference one? Also consider I have a 30$/hr mechanic along with myself to help.

But Stan's option of a good Euro engine outright is another way to go...!

I do really like it as-is, and I am doing the y-pipe this year. So that may be enough for now, enjoy as-is for a while then see if I want more.


Credit where credit is due, Malcolm suggested the complete engine, it is a good plan, and easy to make if you can find a good engine when looking for your parts.

Whether it is an interference engine, is debatable. There seem to be more for it being so, than not.... but I wouldn't want to guess wrong, so presuming it is interference is a good plan.

My '80 Euro S when stock had 300hp as I recall. With a 5L bottom end, headers and a few tweaks, I saw one with 300 at the rear wheels, but it was track only, 100+ octane, etc.

A supercharger can get you over 300 pretty easily, and the higher compression might be a disadvantage.

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02 Mar 2012 19:51 #8394 by 928mac
Replied by 928mac on topic Euro vs US
Mike you have to consider the coin you are planing to spend on it (I'm not 1 to talk, ha ha )

Whats a murf going to cost? 8 ...9 large

Then the air you pump in you need to get rid of or you will have problems.

If I did a SC, then I would include the price of a good exhaust.
Now as James mentioned, this is useless, unless you can tune it.
Performance = a good tune

What I mean is say you do a Murf for 9 grand and dont do exhaust
you may squeeze 4.5 to 5psi boost down it, get 375hp and burn the valves and rattle the hell out of the pistons (worse case)

But the same SC with a good exhaust and a good tune may give you a dependable 450 hp


This is why I started by removing the cats (gain 15-25 ) then I removed what can't be fixed on the road and made it tunable with a tec-4 gt ECM which gave me a new harness and a dependable ECM, no distributor caps or MAF to fail, but a GM MAP sensor, and new plug wires.
Then I pulled the engine and went through it and not only replaced the old weak gaskets but mildly ported to help the intake breath (Another 50-75HP of found and made HP . . . maybe . . Maybe) which was (ECM kit & gasket Kit, knock sensors = $5000) BUT WAY MORE DEPENDABLE

Now I can get nuts if I want.

but If I was you I would read on which exhaust worked best and have one made at the local shop.(think its a single 3 inch) Buy a X-pipe from Roger or who ever but do the research first on them (cost vs performance and which one rust first)

While you are doing this you can decide on the engine you want and where you want to go with it.
Think of it like building a house, first you need a plan and the coin to make it happen.

What ever you decide, we will be here for you.

Brad

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02 Mar 2012 21:15 #8395 by mm928
Replied by mm928 on topic Euro vs US
Great stuff guys and considered opinions as always! I hear you Brad. (sorry about giving Stan the credit Malcolm..)

I think I will start backwards,,,,from the rear HA, and just do the new y-pipe and hi-flow cat. I have a feeling that I am probably going to think a well tuned engine that can breath well may just be what I want for now.

When I had my SVT Focus it was similar (great little car). There are SC kits, but I found if I just used a better air filter and added some new aluminum pulleys that kept the same serpentine belt, that it ran as fast I wanted and got a little quicker response. I am not hung up on HP numbers, I just want it to feel like I want it to feel you know? Like Ferdinand would have wanted it to feel :)

Here we have to have a Cat if it was sold with one, but we do not have emissions tests....yeah a pain. So if I take the cat out completely I will have to close off that smaller SS pipe going to the cat from the block, then possibly have to put a cat on anyway depending on who inspects it. So I will likely just use one of the hi-flows I found, they seem smaller than the factory so maybe I can put it in the original pipe near the back seat are and not have to cut the new y-pipe! Will have to research and make sure there is room.

Hey guys you forgot about option 4 - BUY a nice EURO......we will have to see huh? I want to finish my US 83 first...as my wife says.... it's the journey :)

1983 928S - 16v 4.7L L-Jetronic
Dark Grey w/ Blue Leather
85/86 exhaust manifolds
Y-Pipe
SS Hi-perf Cat
S4 springs
Bilstein shocks
Air pump delete
VIN: WP0JB0926DS861180
- - Isn't Life great? - -

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