new loaner tool for the OC? Beru plug wire crimper

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26 Jul 2012 11:50 #9880 by xjadz928
Seems like a good opportunity here for the 928OC to offer another loaner tool.

The most common mechanical fail-point for the spark plug wires is where the wire crimps to the terminal. The plug ends hold up well, but are often replaced as a whole set due a failed crimp. This is always an expensive proposition, often costing over $300.

The crimp tool exceeds the cost of a new wire set, so it makes little sense to buy it, for one job.

Having this crimp to available to OC members would save many owners on service costs.
It is very easy to service and replace a single wire, while saving good plug ends.

Cost of tool is around $375. I'm not sure if that's the lowest price, but here's an example.

edelweiss.smugmug.com/Cars/Porsche-Techn...i=1109414460&k=hqUk4

Curious on what ya'll think? Mr. Nichols.. Mr. Shaw.. how might we go about this?

Thanks!

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26 Jul 2012 12:32 #9881 by Ducman82
i would be down to pitch in for this. I'm at the point in my project where i need it.

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26 Jul 2012 12:45 #9882 by ROG100
It would get my vote

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26 Jul 2012 13:02 #9883 by srshaw3
We would need someone to handle the loan out process. Roger would you be willing to do so? I would propose it to the board for discussion, if you are willing to handle that aspect.

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26 Jul 2012 13:50 #9884 by Ducman82
I could if needed. but I'm sure roger can not wait to get his hands on a set...

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14 Aug 2012 21:00 #10114 by smtcapecod
I lost track of the other thread for ideas to add to the loaner bin.

I think wire crimper is a great idea.


I'll add: gizmotics to connect to auto transmissions to measure line pressure. Rationale: Most 928s are autos. Seems to be a not-infrequent occurrence for someone to perceive shift issues, and to start messing with the modulator as an initial attempt to remedy. This seems unwise to me- should at least get a baseline read to see what the starting pressure is.

I'm confident the factory tool is made of unobtanium...but we have engineer owners/OC members....

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14 Aug 2012 21:10 #10117 by srshaw3
I think at this point, any new tools or 928 Owners Club programs will be under the guidance of the incoming president. We are about to have the elections, so the new board (with President) will be seated on 9/28.

The two nominees for president are James Morrison and Andrew Olsen. They are both registered to this forum, so you should be able to get their attention to ask if they will consider this request.

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14 Aug 2012 21:15 #10119 by pcar928fan
I personally like the thought and support the idea in general of having loaner tools for members! It is just one more thing that brings value to your 928OC membership! I did forget to mention that in my platform speech btw... Ugh! Frankly we do so much here for members that it is hard to remember everything!

James
78 Silver / Black-white #295
84 Ruby Red / Black AO84
88 Dark Blue / Linen-Black
92 Polar Silver / Dark Blue 92EURO
93 Arrow Blue / Black

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14 Aug 2012 22:01 #10134 by 928mac
I wonder what Andrew thinks

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15 Aug 2012 07:18 #10145 by OBehave
As I had stated before in the other thread, I think the loaner tool kits is a great idea and one that needs to happen. I would be willing to warehouse and maintain/repair the kits as needed and would be able to handle shipping to and from members.
This idea alone would be a great reason for owners to join and feel they are getting their value out of their dues.
Ed

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15 Aug 2012 08:17 #10147 by srshaw3
Hi Ed,

I will see if the president nominees favor this idea, and if so, I will present it to the board. Are you willing to confirm which tool would be the best choice, so I can provide a cost basis?

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15 Aug 2012 09:01 #10149 by OBehave

Hi Ed,

I will see if the president nominees favor this idea, and if so, I will present it to the board. Are you willing to confirm which tool would be the best choice, so I can provide a cost basis?


I will look into the available options and give my opinion and I think others with experience should also.
Ed

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15 Aug 2012 12:03 #10160 by gregn928
This sounds like a good idea to me. The more loaner tools like this we have available, the better.

Greg Nichols
1987 928S4
928OC Charter Member

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15 Aug 2012 12:11 #10162 by OBehave
Ok, after looking at the various options for plug wire crimpers, the prices range from $9.99 to $375.00. The Beru crimp tool has a proprietary design shape and that's what makes it expensive. he cheaper type of crimp tool will not provide the same clamp force as the Beru tool. Go to WWW.Beruparts.com and you can supplythe whole kit from them as they sell the tool,wire and the various ends you need for the job of making replacement wires or to just relace a bad end.
Ed

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15 Aug 2012 12:15 #10166 by srshaw3
I would think we would want the "right" tool, and also one that is made with better quality, so the Beru tool would be the choice, correct?

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15 Aug 2012 12:25 #10168 by OBehave

I would think we would want the "right" tool, and also one that is made with better quality, so the Beru tool would be the choice, correct?


Yes absolutely! The cheaper tools are more generic and not specific for this application. I believe it is always better to pay more for the right tool,then pay twice for the bargain that could do the job.
Ed

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15 Aug 2012 15:45 #10175 by Andrew Olson

I wonder what Andrew thinks


In general I'm supportive of specialty tools for the membership. My concern is with the supply of the bits and pieces to make this useful to the broader membership. Is there is a 928 friendly vendor willing to supply the parts (ends, wires, etc.)? If so, then I would 100% support it. If getting the bits and pieces becomes problematic (dunno as I haven't researched it) then I might be less supportive.

This seems like something the individual vendors should consider doing or an entrepreneur rather than the club. Didn't Mark Robinson offer these a number of years back? I think I have a set in my car.

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15 Aug 2012 17:04 #10179 by pcar928fan
AO, you are correct that Mark Robinson did offer this type deal, but I am not sure what components he was using. I am not a wrench turner (mostly cause you can't reach a damn thing in a 928 from a wheelchair!) so I can't say with any certainty which item/system is better. BTW, I also have a set of Mark's wires in my EURO85! Seem to work just fine...the loaner program is a great idea, we just have to be sure we get good stuff that will last and won't be outdated or lead us to a lack of parts in the future if that is required for the loaner component.

James
78 Silver / Black-white #295
84 Ruby Red / Black AO84
88 Dark Blue / Linen-Black
92 Polar Silver / Dark Blue 92EURO
93 Arrow Blue / Black

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15 Aug 2012 17:53 #10184 by OBehave
the loaner program is a great idea, we just have to be sure we get good stuff that will last and won't be outdated or lead us to a lack of parts in the future if that is required for the loaner component.[/QUOTE]


The website I linked to sells Beru brand tool and parts. Since Beru is a current supplier of modern era autos I don't think availability will be an issue.
Ed

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16 Aug 2012 07:10 #10194 by srshaw3
I found the tool list for $325, and with Ed's offer to handle the shipping, I have put the vote to he board at: forums.928oc.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=1446

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17 Aug 2012 02:49 #10225 by 928mac

In general I'm supportive of specialty tools for the membership. My concern is with the supply of the bits and pieces to make this useful to the broader membership. Is there is a 928 friendly vendor willing to supply the parts (ends, wires, etc.)? If so, then I would 100% support it. If getting the bits and pieces becomes problematic (dunno as I haven't researched it) then I might be less supportive.

This seems like something the individual vendors should consider doing or an entrepreneur rather than the club. Didn't Mark Robinson offer these a number of years back? I think I have a set in my car.


I do not know if the tool loaner program is a totally useful program for a club our size to pass it around.
When there are things like the OCIC or the frenzy it would be a good idea to have all the tools there
and with the wire tool a vender could bring and sell the wires and ends, so that would work

Fo me, I have built wires before and it is a hassle compared to the OEM which will always fit correctly, but expencive.

If the club uses the tools, and lots of members seem to use the tools like the fender roller then I agree and thats great,
Hell, I may want to borrow it to roll my fenders.
So its hit and miss and I do believe like Ed says and Stan has checked the price, That if you are going to buy a tool, buy the best dam tool out there.
I think Roger would be the perfect one to hold the tool as when someone orders the wires he can send the tool with the parts. IMHO

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17 Aug 2012 04:41 #10234 by srshaw3

I think Roger would be the perfect one to hold the tool as when someone orders the wires he can send the tool with the parts. IMHO


I did ask Roger, earlier in this thread after he posted that he was in favor of the tool purchase, if he would be willing to do so.

There might be concern that any vendor having the tool supplied by the 928 OC for loan might be perceived as favoritism.

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17 Aug 2012 09:33 #10240 by OBehave
I was under the impression that we as a club were trying to build a specialty tool chest that members could use with the assistance of the club. I was offering to warehouse and maintain the tools and equipment that the club accumulates, and manage the shipping to and from members. Is this what we are discussing or are we just talking about this perticular tool?
As far as the bits an pieces, Roger and other vendors can still elect to stock and supply the members with the parts and the members using this perticular tool still have the option to buy the bits and pieces elsewhere if they choose.
Remember, this idea came up a while ago and it was to improve membership and to give value to the dues paid for such.
Ed

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17 Aug 2012 14:19 #10248 by 928mac

I was under the impression that we as a club were trying to build a specialty tool chest that members could use with the assistance of the club. I was offering to warehouse and maintain the tools and equipment that the club accumulates, and manage the shipping to and from members. Is this what we are discussing or are we just talking about this perticular tool?
As far as the bits an pieces, Roger and other vendors can still elect to stock and supply the members with the parts and the members using this perticular tool still have the option to buy the bits and pieces elsewhere if they choose.
Remember, this idea came up a while ago and it was to improve membership and to give value to the dues paid for such.
Ed


Stan and Ed I agree on all points. I never thought of the favoritism thing :o

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18 Aug 2012 12:22 #10264 by Feather
When I saw something about this subject on RL I looked at the BERU site and studied their $375 crimper. I see that it will put about five sharp longways crimps in the large barrel of the BERU threaded wire ends, all at one time. I also saw that they sell the wire ends for about $70 for a hundred; so I ordered some. They actually sent 114 in the plastic container.

Then I looked on eBay for some kind of spark plug wire crimper and found one that is somewhat smaller than the BERU one looks like and it comes with two sets of crimping heads. With two heads ( and I think both are needed) it is just under $80, and as I recall, with free shipping. I bought one. It is a compound action kind of crimper.

Then I went to the NAPA store and priced some good quality spark plug wire. It is about $50 for a 100 foot roll in black and $150 for that same roll in white. I think I like the white, but I bought a short piece of black to test the crimper with.

The eBay crimper puts only one sharp indent/crimp into the brass wire barrel, but if you crimp it more times you get more crimps. My pictures show the result. I think I put five crimps in the end, but will liikely use six when I build a wire set.

The next thing I have to do is modify the second set of crimping dies so that I can crimp the threaded shaft of the wire-end onto the wire end that is now inside it. It will take only one crimp. However, with the dies provided for that I see that I will need to grind off part of the crimp so that it does not upset the threads when the unthreaded part of the shaft is crimped. I haven't done that yet. See the picture where the pen is pointing to the part of the die that will have to be ground down for clearance.

With this set-up I think I can build a set of wires for myself for the intiial investment of less than $200, but this will be for a set without new connectors one that will require reuse fo the originals or buying new ones somewhere. However, the second set will cost me only about $12.50, assuming that I can get four sets out of 100 feet of wire and I use black wire. The white wire set(s) will run about $37.50 a set, as long as the wire ends hold out. Add in the cost of some more brass ends, or averaging their cost, brings cost up about $15 additional per set.

If I average the cost of the crimper over several sets of wires I suppose the cost of a nice new set of wires only will be about $50 (white). I think that sure justifies buying the crimper on an individual basis rather than messing with the $375 one from BERU and trying to manage the loan program, at least if you have more than one car to deal with, or you do this in a small local group.

Jerry Feather

Attached files [img]media/attachments/10581=1262-plug wires 001.JPG[/img] [img]media/attachments/10581=1260-plug wires 002.JPG[/img] [img]media/attachments/10581=1261-plug wires 003.JPG[/img]

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18 Aug 2012 13:06 #10265 by OBehave
So If a member has one or two wires on his car that are in good condition and he pulled off the crimped end while working on his car and all he wants to do is replace the bad end, you're saying its cheaper for him to search out e-bay for that crimp tool you bought for $70 and then modify the dies to give his end a similar type crimp, buy a box of 100 ends and fix his wires, instead of just calling the club and pay to ship the tool to him and use it?

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18 Aug 2012 16:47 #10268 by Feather
Hi Ed.

So, if a member has one or two (or maybe more, or even all) wires on his car that are in good condition and he pulled off the crimped end(s)

Why doesn't he save all that shipping and delay, while you are waiting for the tool to come back from maybe you don't remember where, and just send you the wire(s) for you to simply trim the end and crimp on a new brass ferrel and simply send it back?

You could have the Club stock you with the BERU ends, and that would be a logical and economic way to do the whole project.

In fact, the Club could supply you with several rolls of Spark Plug Wire and you could simply make and send out as many wires as a given member might need and that would be much cheaper than sending you a used wire to fix and return. Now, that is where the project starts to make some sense. We would not a borrower or lender be; and I think there is some Biblical merit to that.

You wouldn't be spending much more time doing the wires on order than you would be shipping the tool(s) around the world, and the time involved would be a great benefit the the overall membership, especially the ones needing any number of wires.

Now the project is starting to come into focus, at least for me.

Jerry Feather

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18 Aug 2012 19:32 #10271 by xjadz928
Just caught up on this one..

Thanks everyone for running with this.

I believe it will add value to many members, as long as the word of this opportunity is made known to everyone.

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18 Aug 2012 20:15 #10272 by srshaw3

I believe it will add value to many members, as long as the word of this opportunity is made known to everyone.


That is the purpose of these forums, to communicate to the members. The forum relative to this matter is forums.928oc.org/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=16 (where tools are to be listed). I do have to add the 928 diag tool, as it was purchased long before the forum, but an new tools will be listed there, depending on the future leadership of the club's decisions of course.

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19 Aug 2012 01:31 #10277 by 928mac
Stan, where is the list of tools that we have?
can we get to it from the main page?

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19 Aug 2012 05:38 #10280 by srshaw3

Stan, where is the list of tools that we have?
can we get to it from the main page?


Brad, I specified the link in my prior post :D

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19 Aug 2012 12:37 #10285 by 928mac

Brad, I specified the link in my prior post :D


Yes, I was looking there and was thinking of putting all the tools under 1 heading to make it more obvious.

I was trying to think of how we could make it stand out more.

How many tools do we have in total because I dont want to miss any.

Thanks Stan

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19 Aug 2012 19:21 #10298 by srshaw3

Yes, I was looking there and was thinking of putting all the tools under 1 heading to make it more obvious.

I was trying to think of how we could make it stand out more.

How many tools do we have in total because I dont want to miss any.

Thanks Stan


Brad, just the tools I mentioned in my post, two. One of which is not listed in the technical library, where we agreed the tools would be listed.

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22 Aug 2012 17:30 #10408 by Ducman82

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22 Aug 2012 21:33 #10430 by srshaw3

:-P cant wait!


You should be able to see the vote in the Board Votes forum. Even when it is active. Currently there are 6 votes for and 0 against. There are 7 voting members of the board. The vote is scheduled to close tomorrow, and then we can order it. Reminding me on the 24th wouldn't be a terrible idea.

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22 Aug 2012 23:53 #10434 by 928mac
Stan who gan give me the add infor so that I can post the scanner there.
I have no idea what kind it is or anything.
is it gear I email? if you have a link or e-mail ILL chase it down.

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23 Aug 2012 06:54 #10437 by srshaw3

Stan who gan give me the add infor so that I can post the scanner there.
I have no idea what kind it is or anything.
is it gear I email? if you have a link or e-mail ILL chase it down.


Hi Brad,

That would be a great help. If you could model the topic on the one that is already about the fender rolling tool, it would be great, as then members would get accustomed to seeing each tool explained the same way.

The tool is explained at jenniskens.livedsl.nl/diag/Diag.htm

So far we have lent the tools primarily to events. It cost us a close to $1k as I recall, so if a member wanted to borrow it, we would likely want a deposit. I could add those details afterwards if you want.

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23 Aug 2012 10:39 #10448 by OBehave
I am glad to see this moving forward and in a positive direction. Is there a list somewhere that was started as to suggestions for future tool kits? Maybe we could get a sticky thread somewhere where we could suggest or begin to put tool kits together?

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23 Aug 2012 11:06 #10454 by 928mac

I am glad to see this moving forward and in a positive direction. Is there a list somewhere that was started as to suggestions for future tool kits? Maybe we could get a sticky thread somewhere where we could suggest or begin to put tool kits together?


Hi Ed.
I agree and it is my job i guess. I have just been very busy at home lately and have not had the time to spend on page and thread organizing and link building as I should.

I will try to get it done by the week end.

If you have Ideas like that and want to send a sample as a PM, then it will be there for me to work with when ever I get the time.

Thanks for you ideas

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24 Sep 2012 10:41 #11416 by OBehave
I have been asked to procure the Beru Crimp tool and have placed the order!
As soon as it arrives and the paperwork is in place, I will announce that it is ready for use in the program.

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