How Would You Like These Forums Moderated.

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24 Aug 2012 06:48 #10524 by srshaw3
I am requesting the moderators shut down this thread immediately if there is any clearly divisive language going on in their opinion.

I suggest there is a question to be answered about how these forums should be moderated. I would suggest we certainly do not want severe censorship, we also want certain forums to remain "members only" to provide a benefit to members from these forums. Of course these are my opinions.

In the past few years, there has been general agreement between myself, President, and the moderators on how these boards should be moderated. Issues have been rare and without much fuss dealt with.

We now have more work for the moderators, as a result of the election discussions. While this will, or already has passed, the issue should now be discussed to prevent future issues.

The members of this forum can put a poll together of options, it can be presented to the board for approval. Hard for them to really over rule the members, except on cost or legal issues.

Keep in mind additional forums can be created quite easily, so if there is a desire for an off topic forum, etc. they an be created. Some members have requested a reduction of the number of forums in the past, so they were consolidated.

I would like to hear from the members on this.
These are *your* forums.
Please be polite.

Thank you.

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24 Aug 2012 20:46 #10546 by Kiln_Red

I'd start by making it clear that your moderators are not complete jackasses like Mac was to McLovin. I've never agreed with McLovin on anything in the past but Macs comments to him were way out of line.


McLovin wasn't bringing anything constructive to the conversation. It's hard enough to tolerate that "tone" of negativity from members; much less non-members who don't vote anyway.

What comments of Brad's were "out of line" in his dealings with McLovin??

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24 Aug 2012 21:16 #10548 by DR928
Personality plays a big part in whether or not a person is a good forum moderator.

A good forum moderator needs to be calm and needs to be able to stand an argument without becoming heated.

They need to have a good amount of common sense and they need to be able to handle having harsh words tossed at them.

They cannot go easy on any one member and they must treat all members fairly.

They need to understand their position and not take advantage of it or abuse their powers.

Another good quality would be consideration. Good mods need to be considerate.


Source: Wiki Answers: "What Makes a Good Forum Moderator"
wiki.answers.com/Q/What_makes_a_good_forum_moderator


While this concept is simple, the execution is always anything but simple, or easy,...after all, Mods are human beings too....they just have more "options" on The Forum & Thread Tools Menus and usually more "icons" to click on at the bottom of each post :-)

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24 Aug 2012 21:20 #10549 by Kiln_Red

Personality plays a big part in whether or not a person is a good forum moderator.

A good forum moderator needs to be calm and needs to be able to stand an argument without becoming heated.

They need to have a good amount of common sense and they need to be able to handle having harsh words tossed at them.

They cannot go easy on any one member and they must treat all members fairly.

They need to understand their position and not take advantage of it or abuse their powers.

Another good quality would be consideration. Good mods need to be considerate.


Source: Wiki Answers: "What Makes a Good Forum Moderator"
wiki.answers.com/Q/What_makes_a_good_forum_moderator


While this concept is simple, the execution is always anything but simple, or easy,...after all, Mods are human beings too....they just have more "options" on The Thread Tools Menus and usually more "icons" to click on at the bottom of each post :-)


My thoughts precisely. It is tough, sometimes, to be objective enough to do the job effectively and fairly.

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25 Aug 2012 03:28 #10561 by 928mac

I'd start by making it clear that your moderators are not complete jackasses like Mac was to McLovin. I've never agreed with McLovin on anything in the past but Macs comments to him were way out of line.


Sean, I didn't expect the JA comment from you but please point out what you had a problem with so that I see it too.
Here is the way my post looked (I copied it to here)

******************************

Do you guys seriously think that the communication to the members on this site is up to par? No way in hell. I just went to the "Regions" tab to browse around. You have Jake Meyers listed as the contact for New Mexico even though he moved to Ohio. You still have Mel Ward listed for FL even though he asked to be replaced two years ago. If you click on the linked "website" next to the contact names you get another dissapointment. The link for the New England region takes you to a great set of pictures from a tech session held 10 years ago. TEN YEARS AGO!?!?!?! Seriously? The link next to Florida takes you to a page that invites you to an event that happened back in 2004 complete with bad contact info and dead hot links. The Mid Atlantic region takes you to a dead link that was hosted on Stan Shaws own servers, Excell.net. The exact same thing happens when you click on the one for South Carolina.

In the events section, the Sharks in the mountains is only covered up until 2009. The most current Frenzy info is from 2010. Third Coast is only current through 2006. Stan Shaw, the same guy who's trying to convince you that nothing needs to change is the one who is responsible for this website and it's contents. As Stan put it, if you want change, vote for Andrew Olson. If you want the same old out-dated info and dead links, by all means the status quo candidate is James Morrison.

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I am still trying to understand why you bring that up now and how you did it with only 2 post

Now
Lets make something clear if you all want to keep posting on here.
If you have less then a 50-100 post its obvious that you do not spend a lot of time here.
To gain credibility on any forum its best to hang out and ask a few questions relating to the thread

If you come here and slam us with 2 post to your name you wont make many more.

I will not tolerate any rudeness.
You have been warned.

*********************************
sean, where I underlined I thought I was generalizing to everyone, at least I tried.
then I made a statement which i tried to relate that making rude comments when you first show up on a forum does not give you much credibility.
Then I made clear I thought his post was rude and warned him that 928oc does not tolerate it.

Its normally quiet here Sean, you no that.
BTW remember I do not know as many people as you may, and even though Mclovin may be a nice guy to you, I do not no him and he did not come across that way.

So explain to me (after you review his post I commented to) What I said that was wrong because I am getting a feeling that there is more to it.

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25 Aug 2012 04:09 #10564 by srshaw3

I'd start by making it clear that your moderators are not complete jackasses like Mac was to McLovin. I've never agreed with McLovin on anything in the past but Macs comments to him were way out of line.


You mean the same McLovin that is listed as banned at Rennlist? The same person that came in as a troll, trying to keep themselves anonymous? I am not sure of the exact treatment you are referring to, but dealing with a troll can be quite difficult.

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26 Aug 2012 14:22 #10599 by Gary Knox
The criteria listed by David Roberts sound "right on" to me.

It seems it might be good to have two moderators agree before a change is made to a message that has been posted by a member (or to close a thread). And - if 3 or more changes are made to a poster's messages/threads closed in a reasonable period of time (month or less), it might be worthwhile to consider suspending that members ability to post for a month or so.

Gary Knox

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26 Aug 2012 17:26 #10604 by Mclovin
Stan calls me a Troll because I pointed out his failures, and countered his point that the status quo should remain, by electing James M. Were any of the points that I brought up incorrect or fabricated? This is a club who's members primarily communicate through the internet. When the President of the club is a professional web guy, ou should expect that the website be kept current at a minimum. Not years or sometimes as much as a decade out of date. How can anyone argue with that point? If a prospective new member, such as myself, visits the website and looks around. The first thing I might do is see what events might be happening nearby. Once they find out that the events listed on the OC website are all in the past they might leave. If they stay, they'll likely go the regional contacts area to see who they should contact in their area. They get to that section and find that the link to the regional website is dead or the link takes you to another outdated webpage which only has information about a get together that happened 9 years ago. What would the prospective person think? And you wonder why the majority of owners think the OC is dead. Heaven forbid we get a new president to take the club into an entirely new direction. To bring it into this decade.

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26 Aug 2012 17:28 #10605 by Mclovin
By the way, just in case anyone is wondering. Stan blocked me from the General Discussion forum as well as most of the other ones because he didn't like what I had to say. I'm glad someone brought up this subject here so I could respond. Thank you.

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26 Aug 2012 17:39 #10606 by srshaw3
McLovin statements are widely inaccurate in a number of ways, but rather than respond. I request the moderators delete them from this topic, or move then to another topic where I will be quite happy to respond.

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26 Aug 2012 18:35 #10609 by Mclovin

McLovin statements are widely inaccurate in a number of ways, but rather than respond. I request the moderators delete them from this topic, or move then to another topic where I will be quite happy to respond.


He says that knowing full well that I cannot access those other forums. :mad:

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26 Aug 2012 21:31 #10611 by 928mac

The criteria listed by David Roberts sound "right on" to me.

It seems it might be good to have two moderators agree before a change is made to a message that has been posted by a member (or to close a thread). And - if 3 or more changes are made to a poster's messages/threads closed in a reasonable period of time (month or less), it might be worthwhile to consider suspending that members ability to post for a month or so.

Gary Knox


I agree and like your suggestions Gary

Brad

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26 Aug 2012 21:32 #10612 by Mclovin
Did you guys seriously delete my last two posts that were in this thread? How is this acceptable? I haven't broken any rules. The only thing I have done was point out some serious deficiencies that should be addressed by the new president. You should change the name to the "928 Owners Clique".

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26 Aug 2012 21:44 #10614 by Kiln_Red

Did you guys seriously delete my last two posts that were in this thread? How is this acceptable? I haven't broken any rules. The only thing I have done was point out some serious deficiencies that should be addressed by the new president. You should change the name to the "928 Owners Clique".


Yes. Begin a new topic in another thread, McLovin. This thread is for member's who want to make suggestions on how they would like to see their forums moderated. Not for making opinions about what the candidates for President should/shouldn't address.

Stay on topic, please. Otherwise, begin a new thread.

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26 Aug 2012 22:03 #10616 by 928mac

Did you guys seriously delete my last two posts that were in this thread? How is this acceptable? I haven't broken any rules. The only thing I have done was point out some serious deficiencies that should be addressed by the new president. You should change the name to the "928 Owners Clique".


Hey Mclovin, maybe we got off on the wrong foot so lets try again. BTW it was not me that deleted your post.

Yesterday I was on RL reading and a guy posted about having his car fixed by a "back yard mechanic" and I can not believe how the thread went. In that thread he was beat up for not working on his own car(not everyone can) he was scolded for not knowing how to check if it was fixed or not(not everyone can)
and just treated very rudely IMHO by everyone except maybe 1 or 2 that gave constructive advise.

At the 928 Owners Club we strive to be different by trying to treat everyone with respect. Of coarse it takes time to get to know everyone and even then some may have a bad day (hence Daves point of consideration)
But the general rule here is if you can't say something nice, read and don't post.

In your post above it was great except for the last word but given some of the post lately no-problemo

This is not my first forum that I have belonged to so I have seen the good and the bad. Some of the 928 crowd is about as opinionated as the musician forums which can make it tough to moderate.

I have talked to Eric on RL and a few others and the common term used about the last 2 weeks over here is a (Real Shit Show)
That does not make any of the regular members that post here daily very happy.

I hope you can bring constructive info to the 928 Owners club because it is all about the 928 and not so much if an old event thread was not updated do to the event owners not doing or posting anything more.
Like if I dont work on my car for 2 years so I never update it.

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26 Aug 2012 22:12 #10618 by 928mac

So, if I get this correctly. Anyone who has a suggestion on how things should be moderated need to agree with KilnRed, 928Mac, or Stan Shaw, is this correct?

Because everything I have seen, and a great many others who do not want to post are asking just this.

Should we all start a new thread for issues we see?


Sean you are out of line, and wrong, ... because I have receive many e-mails complaining about the rudeness and have been told many times how good of job we the mods are doing.
I have been told that until this is under control they will stay out of it and I have also been told that many will be leaving RL because of it.

One person actually told me he wished he could change his vote (That is a terrible thing this fighting has done.)

Please!, I respect you as a mechanic and ask you to please not take the way others vote or there opinions personal.

Why does every comment have to be laced with glass?
This will not hurt the Owners club because anyone that is a regular here KNOWS, that this is not norma l and that it is just blowing in from another forum.

That is also a real sad point that I just made and that is that it is driving a wedge between the forums

Brad

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26 Aug 2012 22:15 #10619 by Mclovin

Hey Mclovin, maybe we got off on the wrong foot so lets try again. BTW it was not me that deleted your post.

Yesterday I was on RL reading and a guy posted about having his car fixed by a "back yard mechanic" and I can not believe how the thread went. In that thread he was beat up for not working on his own car(not everyone can) he was scolded for not knowing how to check if it was fixed or not(not everyone can)
and just treated very rudely IMHO by everyone except maybe 1 or 2 that gave constructive advise.

At the 928 Owners Club we strive to be different by trying to treat everyone with respect. Of coarse it takes time to get to know everyone and even then some may have a bad day (hence Daves point of consideration)
But the general rule here is if you can't say something nice, read and don't post.

In your post above it was great except for the last word but given some of the post lately no-problemo

This is not my first forum that I have belonged to so I have seen the good and the bad. Some of the 928 crowd is about as opinionated as the musician forums which can make it tough to moderate.

I have talked to Eric on RL and a few others and the common term used about the last 2 weeks over here is a (Real Shit Show)
That does not make any of the regular members that post here daily very happy.

I hope you can bring constructive info to the 928 Owners club because it is all about the 928 and not so much if an old event thread was not updated do to the event owners not doing or posting anything more.
Like if I dont work on my car for 2 years so I never update it.


Mac, the point you seem to be missing is that I haven't been mean to anyone. All I did was counter the points made by Stan Shaw and I did that with factual, real time examples. Since those points were counter to you and Stan's opinion, I was locked out of the forums (except this one ) and my posts have been deleted. You guys seem to have a major problem with anyone who doesn't share your opinions. That is a major problem if you are running a web forum. This OC is run like a dictatorship. If you don't tow the party line you are silenced. The current president gets to collect and count the votes on his very own private servers before he distributes them to others to "verify". It's terribly suspect in my opinion. And the behavior of Stan and the other moderators here have shown me, and many others, that dissenting oppinions are not welcome here. Maybe "the other half" need to start an alternative owners group. That way you guys can keep your little "club" intact and lilly white.

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26 Aug 2012 22:28 #10623 by Jon B.
Let me first start with this, NONE of what I'm about to say is pointed to ANYONE specifically.

Secondly, If you aren't MAN enough to take a little criticism, or take something that may or may not be pointed at you directly, you need professional help. What kind of MEN don't LET THINGS GO? What does ANYthing put on ANY internet forum actually MEAN to you in the REAL world? If mean really?

The amount of drama that has happened here and on RL in the last couple weeks would seriously make teenage girls blush. It's completely sad really, and I hope that it doesn't continue because I respect a lot of the 928 community and I really don't wish anything bad on anyone.

So seriously, stop being teenage girls and F*#&ing GROW UP. It's REALLY not that hard.

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27 Aug 2012 05:05 #10638 by srshaw3

Mclovins has a great many points that you are discounting.

I'll leave here with this, and when I say leave here, I've got nothing to add to the tech library when it has people like you dictating what is added to the library.

You are wrong buddy, and are out of line. Just because Stan says you are not doesn't make you right. I wish you luck.


Sean,

Why are you not able to stay on the subject here? McLovin can open another topic about whatever he wants. So why must all member see him dictate that every topic must revolve around his topic, and stray from a very real topic, that it would seem you want addressed, and that is how this forum should be moderated.

To most, the moderators job is to ensure people are polite, and in the topic which *I* started, I specifically requested it be kept on the subject of moderation.

Do any of McLovin's questions relate to moderation? Certainly that isn't his purpose in posting, as he wants to pick apart what I have done as president, which has nothing to do with how these forums on moderation.

If he wants to discuss another topic, he should start another one, it is really just that simple.

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27 Aug 2012 05:16 #10639 by srshaw3
Really very simple, posts that do not relate to moderation of this forum are to be deleted. This was my topic, soliciting input about moderation. I specifically posted in a non-member area to get non-member input. Initially there were some posts about moderation, but now it seems that some will only discuss their own personal agendas here, rather than start their own topic.

If you want this topic left open to discuss moderation, then do so, or I will simply close it, leaving only those posts about moderation.

Yes, this is how adults interact. We pick a subject and stick to it. Have any of those who struggle with this concept ever been in a business meeting?

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27 Aug 2012 05:58 #10643 by Kiln_Red
It's a really simple concept. Someone puts up a topic. Others contribute.

When someone steps in to debate the topic of another thread then they are off topic and stirring the pot. What is a moderator supposed to do about that, SeanR?

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27 Aug 2012 09:54 #10645 by OBehave

Mclovins has a great many points that you are discounting.

I'll leave here with this, and when I say leave here, I've got nothing to add to the tech library when it has people like you dictating what is added to the library.

You are wrong buddy, and are out of line. Just because Stan says you are not doesn't make you right. I wish you luck.



So you have a beef with a few people in power here, ok, but not contributing to the rest of the members here and taking your tone from other threads i just read seems to make you look a little selfish not to mention a little full of yourself. As with some others I have seen it seems like a "I'm leaving and taking my ball with me" attitude with no consideration for anyone else. Almost as if it says this "Club" is no good. If I'm wrong, and I may be because I have no problem in admitting it when I am, I am sorry,but it is the way I am seeing it and you are projecting it and others do also.
But if I'm right, well, good ridence!

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