Questions for the Andrew Olson Candidate

More
25 Aug 2012 19:26 #10580 by Feather
Greetings my friend Andrew. A few questions have come up in my mind about how you might run the Presidency of the OC if you are elected. One is how do you intend to do any kind of regular communication to the menbers such as a monthly newsletter of any sort? The other(s) have to do with how you see the OCIC being conducted.

Presently there is not to much of a really periodic newsletter even though the information that might be included is probably available with some search in the OC forum (?).

In regard to the OCIC, we have seen the OCIC gravitate over the last two or so conventions to something where the volunteer chairman setting up the convention is actually a 928 vendor and the whole thing is set up to feature the vendor rather than the OC and the accounting, including the money paid by the OC, ($2500?) is never accounted for and little or none of the profit, if there was some, is paid into the Owners Club.

What do you think should be the accounting to to Owners Club for the Profit made at the last OCIC by the "volunteer" chairman of the event? Have you seen anything of such an accounting? Do you think that if the event made a profit that at least the money paid by the Owners Club should be repaid? Or do you think that since the chairman of the event was a volunteer, like the other people running the club, the chairman of the event shoud pay all of the profit from the event to the Owners Club, no matter how much it was?

Is the volunteer chairman of the recent OCIC the one who has nominated and promoted you as the next President of this Club?

How do you intend to deal with this pending claim and with the OCIC in the future?

Jerry Feather

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
25 Aug 2012 20:35 #10581 by Feather
Andrew, I have another question about the plank in you platform called "Value." I have been troubling about what I see as your and others's concept that each member should somehow be receiving in return for their $30 annual dues something like that amount or more in actual cash value return. Actually basic economics suggests that unless you and the others are willing to put something more than you time, such as their own money, there is really no way to expect that each individual member will get more that their money back, at least in kind.

Don't you think that the value of such an association as our's is merely in the association and the benefit that we, as a group, may be able collectively to provide some greater benefit to one or more of the members, but perhaps less than all, in some actual benefit from simply being associated, as we are? In fact I suppose we could be associated with a purpose of providing something for someone else other than our members with some kind of benefit. Why does it have to be specific return to each member?

Don't you think that if each member is looking for their $30 or more in return that they might just as well go to Walmart? What is the big deal about each member getting more than their $30 back in money's worth return? I am at a loss. How do you explain this.

If each one is to get their money back what is that value in associating for a common purpose. What do you see as the common purpose? Other than getting a 5% discount from one or more of the vendors? Actually, on the average in order for one member to get his $30 back in a 5% discount takes $600 each year every year at one or all of the vendors who give the discount, and I don't think we all spend that much each year at these vendors. Do you think so?

I have said before and I will say again, if someone is a member because they expect to get all or more than their money back in some cash value, they ought to go to Walmart. Don't you agree, Andrew?

Jerry Feather

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
26 Aug 2012 23:11 #10631 by xstepson


In regard to the OCIC, we have seen the OCIC gravitate over the last two or so conventions to something where the volunteer chairman setting up the convention is actually a 928 vendor and the whole thing is set up to feature the vendor rather than the OC and the accounting, including the money paid by the OC, ($2500?) is never accounted for and little or none of the profit, if there was some, is paid into the Owners Club.

What do you think should be the accounting to to Owners Club for the Profit made at the last OCIC by the "volunteer" chairman of the event? Have you seen anything of such an accounting? Do you think that if the event made a profit that at least the money paid by the Owners Club should be repaid? Or do you think that since the chairman of the event was a volunteer, like the other people running the club, the chairman of the event shoud pay all of the profit from the event to the Owners Club, no matter how much it was?

Is the volunteer chairman of the recent OCIC the one who has nominated and promoted you as the next President of this Club?

How do you intend to deal with this pending claim and with the OCIC in the future?

Jerry Feather



Jerry,
I believe that the intrinsic purpose of the OC is in promoting the 928 cars. Therefore, I believe that the OC should be the sponsoring organization for most GTG's including what should be the Grandaddy of them all: the OCIC. We, as members, pay dues that should afford the OC the monetary means to sponsor these GTG's. The OC shouldn't EXPECT to make money on sponsoring events. The OC is not a production company out to make a buck. It is a volunteer organization organized FOR it's members. That is people, Jerry. The OC was not organized for a web forum. That's just a tool owned by the OC for its members. The OC wasn't organized to sell trinkets. Those trinkets are just incentives for it's members.
The OC is a member/car oriented volunteer organization. Let's not make it something it's not and was never designed to be.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
26 Aug 2012 23:21 #10633 by 928mac

well said John.

The gathering we had in Kansas was the absolute highlight of all the years I've owned 928 Porsche cars, other owners cars Ive worked on and the great relationships made over all these years.

The gathering......there can be only one. :cool:


I wish I could have been there but it looks like I would have sheaded a belt on the way anyway, so its good I was close to home.

I agree and joined both RL and OC because I bought my first 928.

Looking forward to attending an event some day.

Brad

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
26 Aug 2012 23:26 #10634 by xstepson
Also Jerry, the OC's were not and as far as I have experienced, have never been about vendors. The OCIC in 2009 was organized by DFW members. Numerous Vendors were there. The OCIC in 2012 was in Wichita. It was also organized by OC members. Several DFW members helped organize 2012 upon request.
There were vendors present at 2012 also.
Jerry, you were one of those vendors.

Several Vendors at the OCICs I have attended gave away door prizes to the participants.
Jerry, you were one of those vendors.

It now appears that you are trying to make the fact that vendors were present into some sort of a bad thing. I find no problem with it at all. I think it enhanced the experience further.

Originally posted by Feather:In regard to the OCIC, we have seen the OCIC gravitate over the last two or so conventions to something where the volunteer chairman setting up the convention is actually a 928 vendor and the whole thing is set up to feature the vendor rather than the OC and the accounting, including the money paid by the OC, ($2500?) is never accounted for and little or none of the profit, if there was some, is paid into the Owners Club.
Do you really think that someone could rent an exhibition hall for a complete weekend, and provide lunch and dinner to a group of people for less than $2500? I think we may have completely different mindsets regarding the OC. I believe the OC and my dues to the OC SHOULD be used to sponsor events for the collective me (928 owners) not to make the OC a profit. I think the trustees that voted for that money to be spent were right in their voting.

And by the way Jerry, It appeared to me that YOU were the vendor that was featured at the OCIC.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
27 Aug 2012 05:47 #10642 by srshaw3

When the President and the potential president will not attend OCIC that is a problem.

When the current president states that the OCIC has nothing to do with the Owners club, that should be an issue. Let's just continue to be a club that really doesn't do anything but send out trinkets. With AO, we all might get together and meet each other.

When a 928 Vendor has to spot most of the cash to hold an OCIC event, there is an issue.


It seems everyone needs a reminder about the 928 OC mission "Our sole purpose is to support owners' in their use and maintenance of the Porsche 928s throughout the world"

There is nothing in there about having car get togethers. Since only 50 of the members attended, does anyone really think the club will survive if 600+ members are paying for an event that only 50 members benefit from? That is *the* issue with the OCICs. Most members will *never* attend one.

The 928 OC does sponsor local events, which I suggest are much more valuable, as then when someone has an issue with their 928 they have people to help them locally. The OCIC does not provide this benefit at all, the members who attend must have a 928 capable of driving thousands of reliable miles, or they fly in without their 928, and how does that make it a 928 club?

People who own 928s have issues *every* day, they need a resource to help them fix and use their 928s. That *is* our mission, and these forums were built to serve that mission.

I would advocate any future president continue to support events, including the OCIC, but certainly not as the main focus of the club.

90%+ of the members will *never* get any value from an OCIC, so why should the majority of the members funds be spent there to benefit the other less than 10%.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
27 Aug 2012 11:10 #10653 by xstepson

It seems everyone needs a reminder about the 928 OC mission "Our sole purpose is to support owners' in their use and maintenance of the Porsche 928s throughout the world"

There is nothing in there about having car get togethers. Since only 50 of the members attended, does anyone really think the club will survive if 600+ members are paying for an event that only 50 members benefit from? That is *the* issue with the OCICs. Most members will *never* attend one.

The 928 OC does sponsor local events, which I suggest are much more valuable, as then when someone has an issue with their 928 they have people to help them locally. The OCIC does not provide this benefit at all, the members who attend must have a 928 capable of driving thousands of reliable miles, or they fly in without their 928, and how does that make it a 928 club?

People who own 928s have issues *every* day, they need a resource to help them fix and use their 928s. That *is* our mission, and these forums were built to serve that mission.

I would advocate any future president continue to support events, including the OCIC, but certainly not as the main focus of the club.

90%+ of the members will *never* get any value from an OCIC, so why should the majority of the members funds be spent there to benefit the other less than 10%.


Stan,
I absolutely believe that the OCIC should be a major event for the OC. Local GTG's, normally regional, should be a great asset to the OC. These regional events should be where OC members are recruited. The aspiration of membership should be attendance to an OCIC. Unfortunately, due to the global economy, attendance was down to this particular OCIC. Just look within your own organization: James Morrison wishes he could have been there; Brad H. wishes he could have been there. Honestly, due to my personal economies, I really had no business going to the OCIC, but there was no way in the world that I would have missed it. The OCIC would not seem the place to recruit new OC members. By definition, it is the Owners Club International Convention. Only members typically attend.

At the 2009 OCIC, we had several members from other continents. The OCIC is the place that you can see 928s and meet other owners from all over (not just regional to you).

I would venture to say that the 2012 OCIC was the nicest collection of 928s on the planet. Want to see a supercharged 928? There were at least 4 supercharged ones driven there. 2 other cars had superchargers installed during the OCIC. Want to talk to someone about a rear turbo for a 928? It was there to be talked about. Want to talk about Sharktuning? Jim Corenman was there to discuss it. How about new fender liners or new cowl covers? Jerry Feather talked about both and more. Hans could talk about electronic window switches. Mike (ammonman on RL) finished rebuilding his AT in time to attend the OCIC.

I seriously doubt that ANY attendee of the 2012 OCIC is sorry that they attended.

"Our sole purpose is to support owners' in their use and maintenance of the Porsche 928s throughout the world"

There is no better use to an owner than driving a GT car in the manner that it was designed to a meeting of other like-minded owners and being able to converse and discuss about upgrades, modifications, and maintenance issues?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
27 Aug 2012 11:50 #10656 by srshaw3

Stan,
I absolutely believe that the OCIC should be a major event for the OC. Local GTG's, normally regional, should be a great asset to the OC. These regional events should be where OC members are recruited. The aspiration of membership should be attendance to an OCIC. Unfortunately, due to the global economy, attendance was down to this particular OCIC. Just look within your own organization: James Morrison wishes he could have been there; Brad H. wishes he could have been there. Honestly, due to my personal economies, I really had no business going to the OCIC, but there was no way in the world that I would have missed it. The OCIC would not seem the place to recruit new OC members. By definition, it is the Owners Club International Convention. Only members typically attend.

At the 2009 OCIC, we had several members from other continents. The OCIC is the place that you can see 928s and meet other owners from all over (not just regional to you).

I would venture to say that the 2012 OCIC was the nicest collection of 928s on the planet. Want to see a supercharged 928? There were at least 4 supercharged ones driven there. 2 other cars had superchargers installed during the OCIC. Want to talk to someone about a rear turbo for a 928? It was there to be talked about. Want to talk about Sharktuning? Jim Corenman was there to discuss it. How about new fender liners or new cowl covers? Jerry Feather talked about both and more. Hans could talk about electronic window switches. Mike (ammonman on RL) finished rebuilding his AT in time to attend the OCIC.

I seriously doubt that ANY attendee of the 2012 OCIC is sorry that they attended.

"Our sole purpose is to support owners' in their use and maintenance of the Porsche 928s throughout the world"

There is no better use to an owner than driving a GT car in the manner that it was designed to a meeting of other like-minded owners and being able to converse and discuss about upgrades, modifications, and maintenance issues?


I am not suggesting there should be local events or an OCIC. I am simply pointing out that they are not the primary function of the clubs, so the cost this year was very high at $2800, the equivalent of 100 annual member's fees. So in comparison to other ways the money could be spent, it was *very* expensive with little member benefit on a per member basis.

So far as meeting other members to talk 928, I submit that local events provide many more members with a much lower cost to the club. I have been to an SITM and a number of Frenzy's, as well as more local less known events, most of what you mention I have seen at those.

I respect your opinion, and submit the next president will decide, but if I am paying membership dues (and I do), and all the benefits are to less than 10% of the members, I am certainly going to re-think the value of my membership. I really like the annual mementos, and find them quite useful, they would be sorely missed by me, as well as the other programs I developed.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
27 Aug 2012 12:48 #10659 by wallyp
There are at least four types of 928 get-togethers in the USA...

The OCIC events.
928 OCIC (Majors in 2000, 2004, 2009, 2012, plus smaller events in Denver and Indianapolis)

The continuing "major local" events, scattered over the country, with the date started:
The Frenzy near Washington DC (1997);
Sharks in Hell, near Pinckney MI;
Sharks in the Park, near San Francisco;
Dave Tassinari's Wilbraham MA event;
Sharks at the Lake at Tahoe (dead at the moment, hopefully to be revived);
Boston Shark Party, aka Porschefest;
Third Coast of Texas 928 Event (2002 apparently going to two a year);

The smaller "one-off" local events, usually with a specific purpose, such as a dyno day.

The vendor events:
Sharks at the Lake/Sharks in the Mountains - the 928 Specialists Customer Appreciation Day Event (1998 Originally in GA, now in the NC mountains).
Sharktoberfest - Started 2003 as a SoCal/928 International event, morphed into Mark Anderson's Customer Appreciation Day
Devek Days- 1997 - 2006

Both the OC and the vendors support the OCIC and the local events to a greater or lesser degree.

I strongly agree that the OC should support the local events, and should be the major support for the OCIC. I do think that the OCIC can be excessive. For example, I see no reason to provide lunch and/or dinner to the attendees. Anyone who is taking valuable time to attend, paying for a room and travel expenses isn't likely to balk at paying for lunch...

There are also international events, some quite major. I would like to see the OC furnish at least token support for some international events.

Wally Plumley
928 Specialists
www.928gt.com

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
27 Aug 2012 12:57 #10660 by srshaw3

There are also international events, some quite major. I would like to see the OC furnish at least token support for some international events.


If you have contacts with them, and want to let them know about us, that would be great. I do try to remember to let international 928ers know about our sponsorship offer for them to run local events as well. I had interest at one time in New Zealand as I recall, but it didn't happen.

Thank you for the great thoughts on the post!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
27 Aug 2012 16:04 #10668 by xstepson

Both the OC and the vendors support the OCIC and the local events to a greater or lesser degree.

I strongly agree that the OC should support the local events, and should be the major support for the OCIC. I do think that the OCIC can be excessive. For example, I see no reason to provide lunch and/or dinner to the attendees. Anyone who is taking valuable time to attend, paying for a room and travel expenses isn't likely to balk at paying for lunch...

There are also international events, some quite major. I would like to see the OC furnish at least token support for some international events.


The lunch and dinner at OCIC 2012 was unexpected but not unappreciated. Would the lack of either have caused me or most likely anyone else to not attend? Probably not.
I agree with everything you have said here Wally.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
27 Aug 2012 16:10 #10669 by xstepson
And BTW Stan,
I appreciate the fact that you have volunteered your time and efforts toward the OC. I have been involved with large local volunteer organizations in the past and I know how hard it can be to secure volunteers and get things done. No matter who wins the presidency of the OC, I believe we will move forward as an organization. I'm not sure that I share your vision of the OC, but I do appreciate the fact that you did volunteer when the need was there.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
27 Aug 2012 18:33 #10678 by Feather
In case some of you didn't notice this thread was directed directly at Andrew Olson. So far as I can see he has not seen fit to respond, but I am not to concerned about why he hasn't.

The real question in this thread is simply this: If the OCIC belongs to the 928 Owners Club and if the volunteer organizers make a profit in the conduct of the convention, where should that profit end up? In the Owners club or in the pocket of the Organizers???????

The volunteer organizers stated in respect to the 2009 Convention that "we made a profit" and I think they may have even refunded to the Club some portion of the money paid in advance for the event, but I am pretty sure that there was never an accounting and I suspect that there was more profit that was simply pocketed.

Then for the OCIC 2012, there is simply no accounting, at least at this point, and it has been several weeks since the final accounting could have been completed. I don't think any money has been submitted to the Club, nor is there any accounting nor even any request for some additional support for some perhaps deficit.

So, no one so far has responded to the question, and clearly not Andrew. I don't really expect any response from Andrew, because I am pretty sure that he does not have a clue. Even if he did he has to choose between supporting his nominator/volunteer group as the ones profiting from the convention versus stating that clearly the money ought to all come right back to the Clubs coffers, as any normal person/member would expect. That is just too tough a position for him to be in.

For me, I do not think that the vendor involvement in the Convention is really the issue. True, I was a small-time vendor at OCIC, and at the direction of the organizers I was directed to put my meger presentation in the faces of the participants. However, I think the Vendors have a real place at any of our conventions, but not necessicarliy in everyone's face. I feel badly that one of you thinks I was the "featured" vendor there.

But, I was not running the convention and I had nothing to do with the convention accounting. I didn't pay anything for the "vendor" positon I appeared to and in fact enjoyed, but I did see fit to donate about $400 worth of Porsche related door prizes for the benefit of those participating.

My position is that when a member volunteers to conduct the convention that is no difference from the President or the others volunteering their time and effort for the Club. None of them should be in a position to profit from it!!!!!!!!!!!! Anyone doing an International Convention for the Club is in a clear fiduciary position in respect to all of the money associated with the Convention and should quickly account to the club for all of it, win or loose.

Does Andrew Olson oppose this position in respect to his candidacy. Let us hear from Andrew about this and not those who support his or his nominator's position on it, or on some collateral issue that seems like it relates.

Jerry Feather

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • JWise
  • JWise's Avatar
  • Visitor
  • Visitor
27 Aug 2012 19:08 #10680 by JWise
Replied by JWise on topic Questions for the Andrew Olson Candidate
Jerry - the OCIC doesn't "belong" to the owners club, it's more or less like any of the other events that Wally mentioned - the OC lends the name and donates money to support the event, but that's the extent of it. All the financial risk and hard work is born by the organizers and their volunteers. There have been previous OCIC's where the organizers lost significant money, conversely, others have posted a "profit" and given back to the club IIRC. Others can provide the details. This arrangement was initially a surprise to me, as having OC in the name certainly implied to me that it was officially put on by the OC. It was/is not.

Additionally, as it is not an official event of the OC, I think it's up to the organizers as to whether or not to give an accounting to anyone, although as a general rule I support transparency. If the club feels it's being taken advantage of in this arrangement, it can certainly limit or withdraw its support.

One can debate the merits of the historical magnitude of financial support, but I believe most (if not all) who have attended an OCIC have had a thoroughly enjoyable time and have gained in their knowledge and appreciation of the 928. I hope the OC will continue to support it as it has done in the past.

Respectfully,
Jarrod Wise

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
27 Aug 2012 19:18 #10681 by srshaw3

...The real question in this thread is simply this: If the OCIC belongs to the 928 Owners Club and if the volunteer organizers make a profit in the conduct of the convention, where should that profit end up? In the Owners club or in the pocket of the Organizers???????

The volunteer organizers stated in respect to the 2009 Convention that "we made a profit" and I think they may have even refunded to the Club some portion of the money paid in advance for the event, but I am pretty sure that there was never an accounting and I suspect that there was more profit that was simply pocketed.

Then for the OCIC 2012, there is simply no accounting, at least at this point, and it has been several weeks since the final accounting could have been completed. I don't think any money has been submitted to the Club, nor is there any accounting nor even any request for some additional support for some perhaps deficit.

So, no one so far has responded to the question, and clearly not Andrew. I don't really expect any response from Andrew, because I am pretty sure that he does not have a clue. Even if he did he has to choose between supporting his nominator/volunteer group as the ones profiting from the convention versus stating that clearly the money ought to all come right back to the Clubs coffers, as any normal person/member would expect. That is just too tough a position for him to be in.
...
Jerry Feather


Jerry,

Gary Knox, 928 OC Treasurer, would have accurate information on the funds transfer between the 928 OC and the OCIC organizers. My recollection is that the 928 OC board approved a $1k sponsorship for the 2009 event. We received money back, but I believe most of it was for membership fees. considering the cost of sponsoring smaller events, the $1k sponsorship to include our logo on shirts was a very reasonable expense (but not necessarily affordable every year that would need to be reviewed annually).

We have not received any funds from the 2012 event. We provided $2.8k as a sponsor. We know 1 member signed up. I can't recall any additional information provided to the board. After the 2009 event we received the accounting on August 11th, just 9 days after the completion of the event. It has been 42 days since the close of the 2012 OCIC.

I did not request an accounting in 2009 or in 2012.

The OCIC has *not* been run by the 928 OC. The history as I recall:
1. In 2000 and 2004 Marc White ran the OCICs on his own. The 2000 event was before my involvement. The 928 OC sponsored the 2004 event for $1k. Marc ran both events with the support of his own team. Marc was on the 928 OC board in 2004. He organized the event separately from the 928 OC.
2. In 2006 Erik Behrendsen and Richard Lang organized the OCIC. The 928 OC provided $1k in sponsorship. Neither were 928 OC board members
3. In 2009 Roger Tyson and Jim Mayzurk organized the OCIC. The 928 OC provided $1k in sponsorship, and as mentioned above received funds back that included membership fees. Neither Roger nor Jim were on the 928 OC board.
4. In 2012 Roger Tyson and Jim Mayzurk organized the OCIC. The 928 OC provided $2.8k in sponsorship. Roger was/is a 928 OC board member. Jim is not a board member.

The OCIC is organized by members and sponsored by the 928 OC. It is not *the* 928 OC's event any more than SITM or Sharktoberfest or The Frenzy.

I hope this helps some to understand better.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
27 Aug 2012 20:27 #10685 by pcar928fan

There are at least four types of 928 get-togethers in the USA...

The OCIC events.
928 OCIC (Majors in 2000, 2004, 2009, 2012, plus smaller events in Denver and Indianapolis)

The continuing "major local" events, scattered over the country, with the date started:
The Frenzy near Washington DC (1997);
Sharks in Hell, near Pinckney MI;
Sharks in the Park, near San Francisco;
Dave Tassinari's Wilbraham MA event;
Sharks at the Lake at Tahoe (dead at the moment, hopefully to be revived);
Boston Shark Party, aka Porschefest;
Third Coast of Texas 928 Event (2002 apparently going to two a year);

The smaller "one-off" local events, usually with a specific purpose, such as a dyno day.

The vendor events:
Sharks at the Lake/Sharks in the Mountains - the 928 Specialists Customer Appreciation Day Event (1998 Originally in GA, now in the NC mountains).
Sharktoberfest - Started 2003 as a SoCal/928 International event, morphed into Mark Anderson's Customer Appreciation Day
Devek Days- 1997 - 2006

Both the OC and the vendors support the OCIC and the local events to a greater or lesser degree.

I strongly agree that the OC should support the local events, and should be the major support for the OCIC. I do think that the OCIC can be excessive. For example, I see no reason to provide lunch and/or dinner to the attendees. Anyone who is taking valuable time to attend, paying for a room and travel expenses isn't likely to balk at paying for lunch...

There are also international events, some quite major. I would like to see the OC furnish at least token support for some international events.


Totally agree with Wally on this and John, I do indeed wish I could have been there! Hell, I wish all 600+ of our members could be there, or at least participate in SOME sort of 928 gathering! I have been saying for the last two years in my new member welcome email that I would love to add this phrase to the 928OC Mission Statement: (this is the exact wording that follows the mission statement) I would also add one more thing to our purpose and that is to foster friendship and camaraderie among owners and fans of the 928.

THAT is what my view for the 928OC is in the future! All the petty squabbling, back stabbing and infighting needs to stop! I don't care who starts it, it just needs to stop... It just brings everyone down.

James
78 Silver / Black-white #295
84 Ruby Red / Black AO84
88 Dark Blue / Linen-Black
92 Polar Silver / Dark Blue 92EURO
93 Arrow Blue / Black

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
27 Aug 2012 20:29 #10686 by ROG100
I have stood up and with the help of others hosted the 928 Owners Club International Convention in Dallas and recently in Wichita.
I funded both personally and can assure you that it cost me and my company a lot of money.
Others contributed to the cost in the form of sponsorship.
Jerry you featured very prominently at the OCIC in Wichita yet you chose not to offer any support in the way of sponsorship. Your decision, but you should know others paid their way namely 928 International, 928Docs, Classic 9 Leather Shop, Project Nine and yes 928sRus.
We made sure you had a prominent position and all the assets of the microphone and time to sell your products.
For you to come back at us in this way is very disappointing.

I approached the OC board and as it was "THEIR" International convention and proposed that they sponsor a significant amount of money to secure the main dinner on the Friday night and lunch on the Saturday. This was the $2000 and it was approved by the board.

They also approved $800 towards the cost of providing T shirts and Sport Shirts for the registered attendees with cars. Again this was a contribution towards the cost and the rest of the monies was provided by the other sponsors.

As of this moment I have not had time to complete the accounting on the 2012 OCIC but I know the expenses were more than the income. I will report that to the OC treasurer as and when I can complete the books. Who will bear the cost for the delta – guess who ME.

Maybe ask Marc White and the other hosts how this went when they hosted the OCIC?????

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
27 Aug 2012 20:41 #10688 by pcar928fan
Jarrod,

Well put and like you I thought the OCIC was an "official" 928OC event. If it IS an "official" OC event then Jerry's thoughts about fiduciary responsibility apply. If it is an event that is supplier/vendor sponsored then that is fine too. Those events are AWESOME as well, but they probably shouldn't have OC in the title of the event, but there is no reason why OC sponsorship would not be an EXCELLENT idea...

I have spoken to Marc in the past about the OCIC's that he organized and he indicated that it cost him as much as $10,000 out of his own pocket! I can't even imagine that!!!

These events bring owners and fans of our great cars together and they need to continue at the local and national and even international levels as much as possible. How much sponsorship the OC can provide will wax and wane as the treasury and membership expand and contract.

Thanks for your thoughts Jarrod, John and Wally!

Roger, I wrote the above at the same time you were writing your response. Thanks for your update. That was all news to me and it is appreciated.

Jerry - the OCIC doesn't "belong" to the owners club, it's more or less like any of the other events that Wally mentioned - the OC lends the name and donates money to support the event, but that's the extent of it. All the financial risk and hard work is born by the organizers and their volunteers. There have been previous OCIC's where the organizers lost significant money, conversely, others have posted a "profit" and given back to the club IIRC. Others can provide the details. This arrangement was initially a surprise to me, as having OC in the name certainly implied to me that it was officially put on by the OC. It was/is not.

Additionally, as it is not an official event of the OC, I think it's up to the organizers as to whether or not to give an accounting to anyone, although as a general rule I support transparency. If the club feels it's being taken advantage of in this arrangement, it can certainly limit or withdraw its support.

One can debate the merits of the historical magnitude of financial support, but I believe most (if not all) who have attended an OCIC have had a thoroughly enjoyable time and have gained in their knowledge and appreciation of the 928. I hope the OC will continue to support it as it has done in the past.

Respectfully,
Jarrod Wise


James
78 Silver / Black-white #295
84 Ruby Red / Black AO84
88 Dark Blue / Linen-Black
92 Polar Silver / Dark Blue 92EURO
93 Arrow Blue / Black

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
27 Aug 2012 21:13 #10696 by ROG100
"The volunteer organizers stated in respect to the 2009 Convention that "we made a profit" and I think they may have even refunded to the Club some portion of the money paid in advance for the event, but I am pretty sure that there was never an accounting and I suspect that there was more profit that was simply pocketed."


Jerry I find this statement very very offensive and ask that you publically apologize to myself and the teams of people who selfishly worked to make these events successful.
I WOULD NEVER POCKET MONIES from an event such as this and quite to the contrary paid money out of my own pocket – how dare you say such a thing and totally unbecoming of you.
I ask the moderators and the President of this club to ensure that your comments are removed once your apology is forthcoming.
Roger

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
27 Aug 2012 21:19 #10697 by ROG100
Both the OCIC in Dallas and Wichita were banner 928 Owners Club events and never once was my company name used in a manner to further my business over and above that of being one of the sponsors.

To the contary I did everything possible to push the 928 OC in every way.

I even give up 5% of my profit (small as it is) to those who are memebers of this club, when they order from us. That is a two way street.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
27 Aug 2012 22:05 #10699 by Jim M.

My position is that when a member volunteers to conduct the convention that is no difference from the President or the others volunteering their time and effort for the Club. None of them should be in a position to profit from it!!!!!!!!!!!! Anyone doing an International Convention for the Club is in a clear fiduciary position in respect to all of the money associated with the Convention and should quickly account to the club for all of it, win or loose. Jerry Feather


Jerry, I don't know what your motivation is but you have no idea of what you are talking about. Andrew Olson is not, and has never been any part of the OCIC in 2009 or 2012. Why would you expect him to have any answers. You also did not attend the 2009 event, at least not as a registered attendee, because I have all the records from both events and your name is not on the list for 2009! Yet you have an opinion of past history of that event. So it appears it's all conjecture. None of the organizers of the 2009 or 2012 profited a single dime from either event, and I was one of two organizers for both events.

Also several other vendors were invited to join us in Kansas but declined to participate either in person or with donations. All of the attendees paid for their lunch. Go look at your registration, you were charged $15.00 for lunch for each attendee and their guest ($15.00 each). Yes the OC was asked to fund the dinner and the T-shirts. We spent $1800.00 to rent the convention center, $4,572.04 for the meals, cash bar and other catering expenses, $600.00 for insurance, plus the cost of the web site, registration expenses, trophies and certificates. So for an event costing well over $7,000.00 we asked the OC for $2800.00 to help offset some of these expenses. We also worked very hard to keep the costs down for all attendees. We chose not to spend $1200.00 just to park on the street during the Wichita car event.

We went to Kansas in 2012 because the costs were much less than in 2009 and because it was closer to the center of the country. Unfortunatly we are still in hard economic times and many who wanted to come simply couldn't afford the trip. In 2009 we also funded several members, paying all of their expenses (including hotel expenses) to those owners that were unemployeed. We extended that same offer to several members in 2012.

I think James said it best, "All the petty squabbling, back stabbing and infighting needs to stop!" I'll say it a little differently; stop stirring the pot when you have no idea of the facts.

Jim Mayzurk
93 GTS 5-
A work in progress

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
28 Aug 2012 06:24 #10711 by linderpat
I think this nonsense has to stop....there are a lot of good names being trashed in these threads, and for purposes that are no longer clear to me. What is clear is that the two candidates have distanced themselves from these vitriolic attacks coming out of supporters for both sides. This is no longer a constructive dialogue, and I question the basis for keeping any of these "political" threads open any further.

I have been a paying member of the 928OC since my first shark was bought in 2003-04, and I have been a member of this and the predecesor 928OC forum the entire time. I do not recall ever seeing this type of behavior in the forum here.

So gentlemen, let's stop and get back to civility.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
28 Aug 2012 07:29 #10713 by OBehave

i think this nonsense has to stop....there are a lot of good names being trashed in these threads, and for purposes that are no longer clear to me. What is clear is that the two candidates have distanced themselves from these vitriolic attacks coming out of supporters for both sides. This is no longer a constructive dialogue, and i question the basis for keeping any of these "political" threads open any further.

I have been a paying member of the 928oc since my first shark was bought in 2003-04, and i have been a member of this and the predecesor 928oc forum the entire time. I do not recall ever seeing this type of behavior in the forum here.

So gentlemen, let's stop and get back to civility.


here, here!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
28 Aug 2012 07:39 #10714 by DR928
Below is a little tidbit concerning the 1st 928 Owners Club International Convention in 2000...of which the OCIC was ALWAYS supposed to be the OFFICIAL 928 Owners Club Convention...and Official Business WAS discussed there, as that was why it was originally conceived to start with. It was intended to be a time/place where the Officials of the 928OC would ALL meet in person to discuss current and future 928OC business and face to face with as many members as possible....oh yeah..and PARTY TOO.

Somewhere along the way it was "whored out" and turned into just a "name"..IMHO that started in 2006, no reflection or anything personal upon anyone involved with that OCIC,..it is just how I see it.

BUT, honestly since the 928OC could not pull it together and continue the "Official Event", my hats off to those people that at least stepped up and tried to continue the tradition that Marc White and others started, even if it was just a name....specifically what Roger has done the last 2 OCICs...like it or not,...a real OCIC or not,....what he and his team has done organizing and putting on the last 2 "OCICs" has done more to promote the 928 Owners Club than from ANY other person OR organization, INCLUDING the 928 Owners Club itself...and if it had not been promoted on Rennlist and instead just here on this forum....there may have been only 3 people there, instead of over 50..and trust me, in this economy, plus due to the fuel costs and lack of "play money" by many, it WAS a good showing of support.

Congrats again to Roger and his team and thanks for organizing and promoting the OCICs as well as they did, and they did it VERY well...and in doing so keeping the presence of the 928 Owners Club out in the "real world". It's the only real presence, or real mention, I have seen of the 928OC in many, many years.

For the record, anyone that knows me, or ever heard me speak of the 928OC knows all too well I have always spoken strongly about NO Vendor involvement in the 928OC on an official level, same as I have said about NO outside advertising on the website/forums....that is no secret and has been that way for over a decade,.. it has NO reflection on Roger or ANY specific Vendor......BUT, just as I did back in my day, if no one else will do it, I can't fault ANY Vendor who steps up and puts his/her time/money/resources to do what the Club won't or can't seem to do for itself.

In reflection of the "Good Ole Days" when we ALL acted as ONE...., not as directed by ONE.

Message from "Mr OCIC" , Marc White concerning the 2000 OCIC prior to the event...

"Hi Gang:

I guess now I have to think again. Hmmm.

It has been quite a challenge to pull this together, but I have had wonderful help. Christine Graham has worked very hard to launch the website by 2000, and she did it! There was lots of code to be sure. I am very proud of what has happened so far on this project, and more good things are on the way to being announced.

Watch the website for additions often. Soon the pre-registration site will be replaced by the "real" site complete with e-forms for signing up for varied activities and events. We have received lots of interest and pre-registration forms since kickoff on 12/31/99, and this is quite encouraging.

We hope to have regional members support by organizing caravans for the drive here. Tell your pals with 928s. Check with some owners you see from time to time. Ask your mechanic who owns 928s and LOVES them. Spread the word. I want pictures of the line of 928s pulling into Wichita this July. I will drive out, meet you and join in!

We also will be needing Concours judges, and Ed Ruiz is coordinating that. Ed may have a post soon about his needs in this regard, but he has great plans for what will be a memorable 928 experience.

At the event we will need volunteers to help with registration and coordination. Additionally, many of you have special talents and knowledge. If you would like to help out, please contact Michael Gerard who is coordinating the volunteer effort. What a perfect match for that job, thanks Michael. You can reach him from the email links on this website, or by email direct, Michael Gerard.

A quick "Thank You" to members of the 928OC-IC Commitee, interested parties and helpers to date. This list includes Leonard Laub and the Founders of the OC, Ed Ruiz (Founder) with his help and interest in the Concours (look over the site as this will be a "928 style" event!).

Philip Adamson (Founder) from New Zealand provides some OC artwork. David Roberts (Founder) for his early support and commitment to attend. Kim Crumb (Founder) for his wholehearted support. Phil Tong (Founder) for all the great things he does for 928ers.

Greg Yocom, Scott Tychsen, Terry Morris, Chester Bailey and all of the Wichita Region PCA for their production of the Hallett Track DE and support of the entire program. Mo Zahr for the Tech Session with a panel of 928 experts. Michael Gerard for handling volunteer duties. Gary Carpenter puts on the Automobilia Moonlight Car Show and Street Party (watch the site for new pictures of past years events).

Mark Anderson of 928 International. Marc and Susan (Kirby) Thomas of DEVEK. The Austin Gang for their support and volunteer help; Christine, James Morrison, Jerry Gebhard, Jim Stadter, Chris Perez and more. Sterling Gee in Dallas. Walt Konecny in Salt Lake City. David Lloyd, Mark Kibort, JP Rodkey, Rich Andrade, Ken Postma, Louie Ott, Don Hanson, Roger Woodbury, and a host of others.

This event has truly been designed for 928ers by 928ers. You had better come and check out the goodies.
Marc White
Event Chairperson"

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
28 Aug 2012 08:02 #10715 by DR928
Oh and I have one more thing to add to this OCIC discussion, a message from a dear ole friend.....

This image is hidden for guests.
Please log in or register to see it.



:D

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
28 Aug 2012 08:41 #10716 by srshaw3

Below is a little tidbit concerning the 1st 928 Owners Club International Convention in 2000...of which the OCIC was ALWAYS supposed to be the OFFICIAL 928 Owners Club Convention...and Official Business WAS discussed there, as that was why it was originally conceived to start with. It was intended to be a time/place where the Officials of the 928OC would ALL meet in person to discuss current and future 928OC business and face to face with as many members as possible....oh yeah..and PARTY TOO.

Somewhere along the way it was "whored out" and turned into just a "name"..IMHO that started in 2006, no reflection or anything personal upon anyone involved with that OCIC,..it is just how I see it.

BUT, honestly since the 928OC could not pull it together and continue the "Official Event"


Just some data points:

I have been president since 2003, so through all the OCICs except the first. The 928 OC was a sponsor for the OCICs of 2004, 2006, 2009 and 2012. There was never a board meeting requested or announced for any of these events.

I think the organizers did a wonderful job, and in face at my initiation all organizers were provided plaques and lifetime memberships as a small form of recognition.

Throughout my involvement with the 928 OC, the volunteer organizers have always been what makes the events happens. Congratulations to them for their success, and thanks to them all for their efforts.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
28 Aug 2012 08:57 #10717 by DR928
Something possibly more important that any of this....check your "Post Count" from your last post above.....

This image is hidden for guests.
Please log in or register to see it.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
28 Aug 2012 08:59 #10718 by wallyp
Thank you Dave and Stan, for a breath of reality and civility.

Marc said,
"A quick "Thank You" to members of the 928OC-IC Committee, interested parties and helpers to date. This list includes Leonard Laub and the Founders of the OC, Ed Ruiz (Founder) with his help and interest in the Concours (look over the site as this will be a "928 style" event!).

Philip Adamson (Founder) from New Zealand provides some OC artwork. David Roberts (Founder) for his early support and commitment to attend. Kim Crumb (Founder) for his wholehearted support. Phil Tong (Founder) for all the great things he does for 928ers.

Greg Yocom, Scott Tychsen, Terry Morris, Chester Bailey and all of the Wichita Region PCA for their production of the Hallett Track DE and support of the entire program. Mo Zahr for the Tech Session with a panel of 928 experts. Michael Gerard for handling volunteer duties. Gary Carpenter puts on the Automobilia Moonlight Car Show and Street Party (watch the site for new pictures of past years events).

Mark Anderson of 928 International. Marc and Susan (Kirby) Thomas of DEVEK. The Austin Gang for their support and volunteer help; Christine, James Morrison, Jerry Gebhard, Jim Stadter, Chris Perez and more. Sterling Gee in Dallas. Walt Konecny in Salt Lake City. David Lloyd, Mark Kibort, JP Rodkey, Rich Andrade, Ken Postma, Louie Ott, Don Hanson, Roger Woodbury, and a host of others.

This event has truly been designed for 928ers by 928ers. You had better come and check out the goodies.
Marc White
Event Chairperson"


How many of these names are still around and active? Sad, isn't it?

I am seriously concerned that in a year or two, there will be very few of the current active members still around, since very, very few of us are happy with the current bickering and backbiting.

Wally

Wally Plumley
928 Specialists
www.928gt.com

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
28 Aug 2012 09:26 #10721 by OBehave
Like Wally said," How many names are still around?" One stands out to me, James Morrison.
I also thank Dave and Stan for the reality check and hope that in the future maybe the OCIC can be a true OC convention promoted by the OC itself with sponship help from vendors.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
28 Aug 2012 10:12 #10722 by DR928

... and hope that in the future maybe the OCIC can be a true OC convention promoted by the OC itself with sponship help from vendors.


AMEN TO THAT, it is how it was originally conceived and supposed to be done.

In planning for the first OCIC we the founders worked with Marc as the 928OC Event Chairperson on budgets for the Convention...but Marc only knew how to put on a Party one way ...ALL OUT "Marc White" style!!

I still remember conversations with Marc..$40 each for 100+ COOL A$$ OCIC Chairs(do the math, that's $4K right there).."Marc, you are kidding right?? We (the OC) can't afford that in the budget"..Marc chuckles and says, "I don't care I want all the 928ers that show up to have one of these nice chairs to use and take home, and I will pay for it on my dime"....then next call "Marc, are you sure about putting an upfront deposit of $1600 for the on site dyno, not sure we can get enough people even at $60 a run to cover that"...Marc says "Don't care, I will cover it, I really want to have a dyno there for everyone to enjoy".

AND, yes we enjoyed the handful of dyno runs, AND HECK YES, I was sitting in my Cool a$$ 2000 OCIC chair just yesterday...and THANK YOU AGAIN MARC WHITE..you are the BEST!!

If you don't know Marc or ever experienced his hospitality in any way,...well it's a "Marc White Thing" and you just wouldn't understand. :-)

Disclaimer, I may not recall all the numbers and quotes EXACTLY, but you get the picture.

Thanks again to my ole pal Marc, all my best to you and Terri, Jeannie and I send both of you our Love!!

OH and HAPPY 60TH BIRTHDAY TO YOU MARC WHITE...you old Geezer!! :-)

Edit:

This image is hidden for guests.
Please log in or register to see it.



He doesn't look a day over 30 to me....and I KNOW his spirit and zest for life is that of an 18 Year old, and I mean that in a VERY positive way :-)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
28 Aug 2012 10:19 #10723 by wallyp
Birthday? Marc? Is that today?

Oh, well...

Happy birthday, Marc!!

Wally Plumley
928 Specialists
www.928gt.com

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
28 Aug 2012 10:39 #10724 by Feather
Thank all of you for the great history lesson(s) about the OCIC and about what the outlook for it might be for the future.

I guess I will try to keep my mouth shut now and wait to see how the election comes out.

Jerry Feather

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
28 Aug 2012 11:02 #10725 by DR928

Thank all of you for the great history lesson(s) about the OCIC and about what the outlook for it might be for the future.

I guess I will try to keep my mouth shut now and wait to see how the election comes out.

Jerry Feather


Jerry,

With all due respect, please continue to sing the praises of the candidate of your choice...but talking down his opponent does no good for your candidate, it does more harm than good IMHO.

If EVERYONE would just show enough confidence in their choice(s) to not feel they need to tear down or discredit the other candidate, things would have gone down differently here lately. Plain and simple as that.

To your comment about Andrew not responding to your "threads", it is plain as day to me why he wouldn't, especially in this forum after all that has happened lately. It would be a no win situation and bring him down to the levels of the negativity and vitriol seen here.

If you stop and think about, have you seen people we all respect like, Wally, Gary Knox, Greg Nichols, Marc White and many others "choosing sides" publicly?? We should ALL strive to be more like those real gentlemen have been in relation to this current election.

Cheers,

Dave

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
29 Aug 2012 03:43 #10748 by Kiln_Red
You make some very good objective points about it all, Dave. In hindsight of everything, I make a pretty simple assessment of it all AND IT IS JUST MY OPINION. Andrew's points of emphasis in his nomination thread appear to center around his feelings of past failure(s) made by the OC. Clearly, this is the way he sincerely feels as he has campaigned for President twice now on this platform. The reality is that if enough people agree, he will have a chance at leading the way to a new direction for the club. For what's it worth, I don't see any foul in the way Andrew has campaigned.

His comments, some negative in nature, were met with a rebuttal by the sitting President both here and on RL. Again, I see no foul. Just as Andrew should be allowed to pick out faults with this organization under Stan's guidance, Stan should be allowed to defend his record. For whatever reason, though, Stan's rebuttals invited controversy from many members and responses were produced in the form of attacks. Andrew's nomination threads were also met with responses, in the same fashion, by other members.

If all of the rest of us, myself included, could have left it to Stan, James, and Andrew to do the talking then this would have all played out differently. If everyone will have the same ability, as you have shown, to put it behind them and remember that we're all good folks here then everything will be just fine. Politics, at any level, invite conflicting opinions and tough dialogue on occasion. What's important to remember is that both James and Andrew, and all OC members want what's best for the club. It's okay for us to have different ideas about getting there. :)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
29 Aug 2012 17:33 #10766 by pcar928fan
Marc White must be the YOUNGEST 60 year old I have ever known! I would have NEVER guessed 60! Good genes Marc!

James
78 Silver / Black-white #295
84 Ruby Red / Black AO84
88 Dark Blue / Linen-Black
92 Polar Silver / Dark Blue 92EURO
93 Arrow Blue / Black

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Moderators: Rich928mm928billvvOC

Don't have an account yet? Register Now!