Vin

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01 Nov 2012 16:19 #12238 by Proton_Ice
Vin was created by Proton_Ice
Hello friends,

2 questions for you,

I never paid attention to the VIN of my 928, but yesterday I noticed I had a letter instead of a number.
My VIN is WPOJB092XHS861477 and is the X
This seems odd to me.

I have my 928 for a year and it works well, no problem with.
I have the oportunity to buy one from a friend. This car (complete and same as mine 928 manual 1987) won't start and can't go on the road again. He ask me $4000.
sound like t he a good deal knowing that it is just for parts?
And do i need a a lot of parts, a complet car for parts.

Thanks for your comments. All are welcome

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01 Nov 2012 16:32 #12239 by pcar928fan
Replied by pcar928fan on topic Vin
Hell if the engine and transmission and brakes are good it is worth $4k!

"X" is a place holder letter... Has changed over the years. The "8" after HS is the "8" in 928. Not sure why they split it up like that but they do. The "H" is the model year "J" is the letter for '88 (they don't use "I" or "O" as they might be confused with a number) and the "S" is place of manufacture (Stuttgart) and then the "6" is....crap, I can't remember and then in your case the car ID#/build number/serial number, whatever you want to call it is "1477". The Tech Spec books tell you all about what the VIN stands for.

James
78 Silver / Black-white #295
84 Ruby Red / Black AO84
88 Dark Blue / Linen-Black
92 Polar Silver / Dark Blue 92EURO
93 Arrow Blue / Black

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01 Nov 2012 16:52 #12242 by Proton_Ice
Replied by Proton_Ice on topic Vin

Hell if the engine and transmission and brakes are good it is worth $4k!


In fact it is a chance or a risk, a gamble.
The car was working very well 5 years ago. then it was stopped since...
It is therefore 5 years it is arrested without driving.
No maintenance, it remains beautiful in appearance outside,very little rust. The inside is warp execept the 2 seat.

The engine, transmission and break stores well without work and without maintenance ?
The vehicle was outside only the 2 last years.

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01 Nov 2012 19:36 #12245 by wallyp
Replied by wallyp on topic Vin
Very much a gamble. If you take the gamble, change the timing belt and all of the fluids, then try to get it running. We can give advice once you get to that stage.

Wally Plumley
928 Specialists
www.928gt.com

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01 Nov 2012 20:00 #12246 by Proton_Ice
Replied by Proton_Ice on topic Vin
Thanks wallyp, i will take the gamble, i will call the guy tomorrow.
That was my idea too rebuilt the engine and make it running to be prepair in case.
Do the same to the transmission if i can. All of that with no hurry because my 928 is running.

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02 Nov 2012 00:30 #12249 by 928mac
Replied by 928mac on topic Vin
Sounds like a good buy. Can you show us any pictures of it before you buy it?

Brad

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02 Nov 2012 23:18 #12261 by pcar928fan
Replied by pcar928fan on topic Vin
BLU82 had not been started in more than a decade... It sat in a garage in Seattle and after all fluids, hoses, belts and battery were changed the car fired right up and ran like a top!

James
78 Silver / Black-white #295
84 Ruby Red / Black AO84
88 Dark Blue / Linen-Black
92 Polar Silver / Dark Blue 92EURO
93 Arrow Blue / Black

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05 Nov 2012 14:56 #12312 by wallyp
Replied by wallyp on topic Vin
I would not rebuild the engine until it was proven to need it - they very rarely need rebuilding. Changing rubber parts is probably a good idea.

Wally Plumley
928 Specialists
www.928gt.com

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06 Nov 2012 19:05 #12331 by Proton_Ice
Replied by Proton_Ice on topic Vin
Hi,

Thanks for the advice.
Discuss whith the guy, and take the gamble for $3K.
I will pay tomorrow morning and get it tomorrow night.
I will take pict and send you soon.

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06 Nov 2012 19:05 #12332 by ROG100
Replied by ROG100 on topic Vin
Correct VIN in the Porsche system is WP0JB092XHS861477
There is never an O in a VIN just Zero's

Automatic with the following options ---
M018 - elevated steering Wheel hub
M220 - LSD
M490 - Sound Package
M494 - Amplifier
M533 - Factory Alarm
M570 - Rear AC
M650 - Sunroof

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07 Nov 2012 17:10 #12366 by Proton_Ice
Replied by Proton_Ice on topic Vin
Received the car. Night for now so pict tomorrow.
seems pretty well, no immatriculation papper because sell for parts !
Tomorrow i will verified oil and just try to start a couple of second.
After this test, probably saturday, change oil and all liquids.

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07 Nov 2012 20:41 #12376 by pcar928fan
Replied by pcar928fan on topic Vin
Looking forward to seeing pics!!!

James
78 Silver / Black-white #295
84 Ruby Red / Black AO84
88 Dark Blue / Linen-Black
92 Polar Silver / Dark Blue 92EURO
93 Arrow Blue / Black

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08 Nov 2012 19:13 #12416 by Proton_Ice
Replied by Proton_Ice on topic Vin
Hi guys,

Verifiy engine oil, seems good, clear and enought to try to start.
Put a booster after the battery and try.
The enfine turn but not start. I don't made more tests.
This week-end i will change engine oil to be sure and all other liquid.
I will see with Quebec authority (SQ), if the car can pass test to put it on the road
It will be bad to put this car on part !

So the picts :

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09 Nov 2012 09:31 #12450 by wallyp
Replied by wallyp on topic Vin
There are, of course, many, many possible causes for the non-running condition, but the first thing to check are the critical relays. Relay XX (Fuel Pump), Relay XVI (EZK or Ignition), and Relay XXV (LH or Injection) must all work, or the engine will not run. All of these may be replaced with any of the standard "53" relays in the panel.

We will start with the most common failure, the fuel pump power circuit. Get a helper. Kneel by the rear bumper and have the helper operate the starter. You should hear a buzz or whine from the fuel pump as the starter operates. If not, check Fuse #42 for power as the starter operates. If there is no power as the starter operates, Find Relay XX (Fuel Pump) and Relay XII (Horn). Blow the horn to make sure that the horn relay works. Swap the two relays. Kneel by the rear bumper and listen for the fuel pump buzz or whine as the starter operates. If still no whine or buzz, make a relay jumper.

Get a metre of lamp cord or zip cord. These are the common USA terms for the two-conductor flexible wire that is used to connect a table lamp to the electrical outlet. Get an automotive single-pole single-throw toggle switch that has "OFF" and "ON" clearly marked. Get two flat, male, 1/4" spade electrical connectors, plus any connectors that are needed to connect the switch. Put the two 1/4" male connectors on one end of the lamp cord, and the toggle switch on the other end. The jumper may now be used to temporarily substitute for any of the critical relays.

Remove Relay XX. Look at the diagram on the side and locate Terminal 30 (Battery Power) and Terminal 87 (Load) in the relay socket. Make sure that the toggle switch is off and plug the connectors on the relay jumper into Terminals 30 and 87 in the relay socket. Turn the toggle switch on, and listen at the rear bumper for the fuel pump whine or buzz. No fuel pump noise, no start. If there is no fuel pump noise, go back to Fuse #42. Check the fuse and the fuse connector for any sign of overheating or corrosion. Check the fuse. Make sure that the connectors are tight, so that there is some resistance to inserting and removing the fuse. Listen again for the fuel pump buzz.

If the fuel pump does not run, you will need to remove the cover under the rear bumper and check for power at the pump.

Let us know what you find - be verbose and precise.

Wally Plumley
928 Specialists
www.928gt.com

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09 Nov 2012 09:44 #12451 by ROG100
Replied by ROG100 on topic Vin
The "Master" has spoken - that post is worth your 928OC membership 20x plus.

What a beautiful and unique car - the colors are amazing. Needs a lot of cleaning and maintenance but WELL worth the money. This car must be saved and I would buy it from you if you ever think of parting it out. GREAT FIND.

Check the driver’s door jamb to confirm the color please?

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09 Nov 2012 09:46 #12452 by ROG100
Replied by ROG100 on topic Vin
This was a well looked after car before it was left to rot. Even the jump post cover and cap are in place.

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09 Nov 2012 19:37 #12471 by Proton_Ice
Replied by Proton_Ice on topic Vin
Thanks a lot Wallyp you're a real Master !
Thanks too Roger, more i see the car, more i thaught this 928 need to go on road.
I'm not hurry with this car, because my 928 black works very well, so i will try to start the engine and after during this winter dismount all that it need.
I prepare oil etc.. to try tomorrow the Wallyp procedure to start the car.
More info after job tomorrow night.

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09 Nov 2012 20:10 #12472 by mm928
Replied by mm928 on topic Vin
My hat is off to you guys that take on cars in condition like this or worse. You guys are the real deal in my book. I would not have tried that my first time for sure. Even now, knowing what I know, it is probably more than I am interested in doing. Maybe if I had all the car stuff already in my garage or was a former or closet mechanic of some type!

anyway - it is great to see these cars staying around and coming back to life!

1983 928S - 16v 4.7L L-Jetronic
Dark Grey w/ Blue Leather
85/86 exhaust manifolds
Y-Pipe
SS Hi-perf Cat
S4 springs
Bilstein shocks
Air pump delete
VIN: WP0JB0926DS861180
- - Isn't Life great? - -

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10 Nov 2012 12:04 #12484 by Proton_Ice
Replied by Proton_Ice on topic Vin
Hi Wallyp and folks,

Beging the job this morming.
I got 2 spare electric bord and one with all the relay working.
When i working on my black 928 i buy them and relays to rebuilt a spare working.
This bord can be interchange with the original and i know all is working on.

Step 1 :
So after liquids, dismount the wood door of the electric panel and change the 3 relays XX - XVI - XXV with 3 working from my spare electric bord. Pin seems a bit rusty and change fuse 42 with brand new 15A.
Try starting and nothing more than before.

Step 2 :
Made the cable as Wallyp said and test. So, when i put the switch on, i heard a small «klong» during 1sec. in the back of the car (fuel pomp) like a relay not a sound like a pomp starting BZZZZZ during a long time ou starting.
The trouble is near or the fuel pomp. the song is like something try to start and stop immediatly.

This afternoon i will see around and the fuel pomp. I don't understand how to access it (Google is my best friend but if you have a idea). I will try to locate it.
Do i have to dismount the bumper to find it ?

Excuse me for my english when i try to explain détail but i'm a frog (French speaking !) so my detail vocabulary is poor.

Some pict of the morning. Thanks all

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10 Nov 2012 12:09 #12485 by Proton_Ice
Replied by Proton_Ice on topic Vin
Hi,

Google is one of my best friend.
Procedure find here : www.928gt.com/T-fcheck.aspx

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10 Nov 2012 13:40 #12486 by Kiln_Red
Replied by Kiln_Red on topic Vin
I'd recommend buying another pump and filter now. You're existing fuel pump is sure to be frozen. Several or all of your injectors could be as well. Call 928 International and get a quote with them for a good used set of injectors, a used pump, and a new filter if you are on a budget. 928 International is having a half off sale right now on their used parts inventory. Keep us updated and congratulations, so far, on what appears to be a good buy. :D

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10 Nov 2012 14:30 #12487 by Proton_Ice
Replied by Proton_Ice on topic Vin
Found the 2 bolt that is in front of my nose !

Roger, for you : 40B93 / Nougatbraun Metalic F4 (Nougat is very good to eat :D)

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And the pump :

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10 Nov 2012 18:38 #12488 by Proton_Ice
Replied by Proton_Ice on topic Vin
Hi,

Can i dismount the pump without an empty tank gas ?
Is there a second gas pump or not ?
I read some text talking about 2 pump gas !
Thanks.

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10 Nov 2012 21:49 #12497 by Kiln_Red
Replied by Kiln_Red on topic Vin
You can remove the hose to the pump and drain the fuel that way. Pull the fuse and/or disconnect the battery before moving the wires. You don't want a spark back there. If I remember right, the nut on the positive post is an 8mm while the nut for the negative side is a 7mm.

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11 Nov 2012 14:15 #12503 by Proton_Ice
Replied by Proton_Ice on topic Vin
Pump and fliter is on my table.
I empty the tank and after i have test with the homemade switch to bypass the pump relay and there ia 12.4 V.
Kiln Red, on the pump i saw a red dot near the + connector.
Pump mybe dead. I will try to open it and see what happen.

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11 Nov 2012 14:37 #12505 by Kiln_Red
Replied by Kiln_Red on topic Vin

Pump and fliter is on my table.
I empty the tank and after i have test with the homemade switch to bypass the pump relay and there ia 12.4 V.
Kiln Red, on the pump i saw a red dot near the + connector.
Pump mybe dead. I will try to open it and see what happen.


There is no way to open the pump. The case and internals of the pump are pressed together. Even if you were to separate it, there would be no reliable way to reassemble it. Funny that your pump had a red dot as I have never seen one. I'd definitely replace the pump, at this point. I unfroze one once only to have it fail on me a couple of weeks later.

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11 Nov 2012 17:15 #12507 by Proton_Ice
Replied by Proton_Ice on topic Vin
The idea to open the pump is curiosity, just to know that's going on, what fail.
I try to find document on but nothing on the net.
Sur i will buy one brand new, i don't want to do the job again in 4 weeks !

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11 Nov 2012 17:18 #12508 by Kiln_Red
Replied by Kiln_Red on topic Vin
The failure is almost certainly going to be the result of varnished fuel that has seized the pump motor.

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11 Nov 2012 21:13 #12510 by wallyp
Replied by wallyp on topic Vin
Your English is far, far better than my non-existent French! It is completely acceptable - if we have a problem, we will ask you to explain.

When you get to the fuel pump, put your hand on the fuel pump and have a helper turn the test jumper switch on and then back off. If the pump jumps slightly, or goes "klong!", the pump may have failed, or it may be jammed by a piece of rubber from a failed internal (inside the fuel tank) fuel pump. Do not leave the switch turned on.

If this is the result when you turn the switch on briefly, look carefully at the electrical wires on the fuel pump. If there is another pair of wires that run to the plug where the fuel line comes out of the fuel tank, you have an internal fuel pump.

Let us know what you find.

Wally Plumley
928 Specialists
www.928gt.com

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11 Nov 2012 21:21 #12511 by wallyp
Replied by wallyp on topic Vin
OK, I was late in replying.

Connect the wires to your fuel pump in reverse order - that is, hook the positive wire to the negative terminal of the pump, and the brown negative wire to the positive terminal. Click the jumper switch on and off several times. If the pump starts running, remove the wires and see if you can shake or wash any small particles out of the pump openings. If so, the pump may be usable.

Check the wires to see if there are electrical wires hooked to the plug where the fuel line comes out of the tank. If so, you have an internal fuel pump. The rubber hose from that pump to the tank fitting usually fails. You can replace the hose, or you can remove the internal pump and replace it with a strainer.

Wally Plumley
928 Specialists
www.928gt.com

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11 Nov 2012 21:55 #12512 by Kiln_Red
Replied by Kiln_Red on topic Vin
Just to expand on my earlier thoughts about fuel varnish...

When you apply power to the pump, it will quickly heat up if the motor is seized. Do as Wally suggests and reverse the power. You'll probably find that no amount of effort will restore the pump if varnished fuel has seized it.

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11 Nov 2012 22:33 #12516 by Proton_Ice
Replied by Proton_Ice on topic Vin
It's never to late to answer, i appreciate all reply.
As i said before i'm not in the hurry.
I will change the pump and not takes chance.
A friend of mine in montreal who have a 928 got one brand new.
He baught it last year but not fit on his car.
I look at the part number he gave me and fit on 1987 S4, i will take it tomorrow.
Got a spare fuel filter when i baught my S4 black.
I will buy fuel line.
I read around internal fuel pump this after noon and i anderstand that i must have wires to power it.
On Porsche plan «928 Fuel System Parts» i see internal fuel pump or strainer.
No wires on the car so i have a strainer on the fuel tank.
When i empty the tank fuel, the flow was very fast, tank is 3/4 full so it seems not blocked but do i have to dismont the strainer to clean it or it's waste time ?

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11 Nov 2012 22:55 #12517 by Kiln_Red
Replied by Kiln_Red on topic Vin
Sounds like you are lucky to have a strainer. If it were me, I'd replace the pump & filter, fill it up, and give it a go. If it doesn't start, my next suspicion would be frozen injectors. I had this problem when waking an '85 from a long slumber. 6 of the 8 injectors were frozen, so I replaced them with working injectors from a 5.0 Mustang. I am not sure if your car used the same injectors. Just thought it was worth a mention.

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12 Nov 2012 14:59 #12523 by Proton_Ice
Replied by Proton_Ice on topic Vin
I found my spare Fuel filter. It's a KL40 Mahle part 928 110 253 03.
If i'm looking in the PET, the part is 928 110 253 06.
Can i use mine, is it good ?
When i look at it it seems the same but the old one is wrote KL21 !

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