Pulling motor and refresh suggestions

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04 Jan 2013 18:17 #13075 by mm928
Hi Guys,

I am pulling my motor for the 1st time in March to cleanup a few minor leaks, replace the motor mounts and old rubber tubing etc. My shade tree mech friend has the Garage for it and will be doing most of the work.

Does anyone have any suggestions or links to good write ups etc. Since mine is a 16v I do not expect much to be out there unfortunately.

Value-bang for the buck type of ideas etc. welcome. Then later in the year it will be the ol' Shock suspension upgrade and I will be almost finished, with Paint and possibly wheels being the only big things left.

We will definitely be posting pics and a write up on it.

1983 928S - 16v 4.7L L-Jetronic
Dark Grey w/ Blue Leather
85/86 exhaust manifolds
Y-Pipe
SS Hi-perf Cat
S4 springs
Bilstein shocks
Air pump delete
VIN: WP0JB0926DS861180
- - Isn't Life great? - -

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04 Jan 2013 21:51 #13079 by the flying scotsman
Replied by the flying scotsman on topic Pulling motor and refresh suggestions
how is the compression? if good Id reseal the entire engine, timing belt and all associated gears/pump/tensioner.

motor mounts and any other hard to get to parts when the motor is in (heater line, a/c line)

clutch?

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05 Jan 2013 10:56 #13081 by mm928
Replied by mm928 on topic Pulling motor and refresh suggestions
Good ones Malcolm, no clutch - Auto. Compression seems fine but it has not been tested yet. So that one goes on the list.

thanks!

1983 928S - 16v 4.7L L-Jetronic
Dark Grey w/ Blue Leather
85/86 exhaust manifolds
Y-Pipe
SS Hi-perf Cat
S4 springs
Bilstein shocks
Air pump delete
VIN: WP0JB0926DS861180
- - Isn't Life great? - -

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05 Jan 2013 16:23 #13084 by Kiln_Red
Replied by Kiln_Red on topic Pulling motor and refresh suggestions
Having the engine is a great opportunity for a lot of things on the 16V cars. Motor mounts, oil pan gasket, front & rear main seals, etc. The can tower gaskets are MUCH easier with the engine out. When you pull the radiator out, be very careful with the transmission cooler lines. The return line is NLA so, if you do need one, an alternative may be hard to come by as the hose is pretty unique.

On pulling the engine, it is easier to slide the transmission, TT, and bellhousing as one unit. Just loosen the two transmission mounts. Don't forget the clamps for the wiring harness at the cross member.

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08 Jan 2013 21:50 #13119 by mm928
Replied by mm928 on topic Pulling motor and refresh suggestions
Thanks Austin good stuff. My mech buddy had already mentioned we may have to do something with the Tranny...you have just confirmed! Good tip on the Tran lines, I also assume we will be losing the A/C coolant?

I will keep a list of the suggestions and when it gets closer maybe post it once more to be sure...I only want to to this once!!!! :)

1983 928S - 16v 4.7L L-Jetronic
Dark Grey w/ Blue Leather
85/86 exhaust manifolds
Y-Pipe
SS Hi-perf Cat
S4 springs
Bilstein shocks
Air pump delete
VIN: WP0JB0926DS861180
- - Isn't Life great? - -

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08 Jan 2013 22:08 #13121 by Kiln_Red
Replied by Kiln_Red on topic Pulling motor and refresh suggestions
No need to disconnect any AC lines. I leave the condenser and AC lines in place. You can simply move the compressor out of the way. Going back in can be tricky. Sometimes it's hard to set the engine down on the mounts correctly. If all else fails, you can use a come-along cable puller at the starter bracket and pull the engine toward the rear to allow for the engine to fall into the correct place on the mounts.

If you're considering replacing the AC lines, then of course you'll lose the charge.

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09 Jan 2013 20:56 #13123 by mm928
Replied by mm928 on topic Pulling motor and refresh suggestions
Ok cool - good stuff. Thanks everyone! We will document well.

1983 928S - 16v 4.7L L-Jetronic
Dark Grey w/ Blue Leather
85/86 exhaust manifolds
Y-Pipe
SS Hi-perf Cat
S4 springs
Bilstein shocks
Air pump delete
VIN: WP0JB0926DS861180
- - Isn't Life great? - -

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11 Jan 2013 07:55 #13141 by Ducman82
Replied by Ducman82 on topic Pulling motor and refresh suggestions
i would run all your compression tests and even a leak down before you pull. just incase. but its pretty easy for us 16v guys. and i would call up Greg Brown down in Cali and order up the cam tower gaskets he has made. much better then the stockers. and i would FOR sure do them now. replace everything else..... and they will leak if you don't. just "carma" he he he

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11 Jan 2013 20:04 #13155 by mm928
Replied by mm928 on topic Pulling motor and refresh suggestions
Thanks Ducman, I will check with Greg, I was going to do the cam towers but was not aware of hand made ones! I feel I am getting a good list now....

1983 928S - 16v 4.7L L-Jetronic
Dark Grey w/ Blue Leather
85/86 exhaust manifolds
Y-Pipe
SS Hi-perf Cat
S4 springs
Bilstein shocks
Air pump delete
VIN: WP0JB0926DS861180
- - Isn't Life great? - -

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12 Jan 2013 16:59 #13163 by xstepson
Replied by xstepson on topic Pulling motor and refresh suggestions
I think if I was pulling the engine, I would go beyond just the cam cover seals and replace the head gaskets as well. All but one 16 valve that I have seen apart had major disintegration of the head gaskets due to coolant left in an inactive engine.

My $.02

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12 Jan 2013 21:02 #13165 by Kiln_Red
Replied by Kiln_Red on topic Pulling motor and refresh suggestions
I wouldn't remove the heads unless there was good reason to do so. That is just me. If you do decide to do the head gaskets, make sure you follow the right torque procedure. 15ft/lbs, then two additional 90° degree turns IIRC. Remember that it is not uncommon to pull the threads for the head studs. Repairing the threads is a major pain in the neck. :rolleyes:

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13 Jan 2013 13:02 #13170 by pcar928fan
Replied by pcar928fan on topic Pulling motor and refresh suggestions
Yea, pulling the heads would be a lot of extra work, but with the engine out it is not TO BAD I guess. Still, lots of room for things to go wrong when you pull the head. While most all probably could USE new head gaskets the question is are they really going to FAIL in the time that you own the car??? Who knows. Are you feeling lucky punk?! LOL!

James
78 Silver / Black-white #295
84 Ruby Red / Black AO84
88 Dark Blue / Linen-Black
92 Polar Silver / Dark Blue 92EURO
93 Arrow Blue / Black

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13 Jan 2013 13:41 #13171 by Kiln_Red
Replied by Kiln_Red on topic Pulling motor and refresh suggestions
I have a couple more thoughts. IF you do decide to the head gaskets, soak the head nuts in PB Blaster occasionally while disassembling the intake, cam towers, etc. When you are ready to loosen the nuts, use a 1/2" drive impact and a quality 19mm deep impact socket. I DO NOT recommend using a breaker bar and/or chrome socket. This is how good blocks get ruined. Don't be afraid to hold the trigger down on the impact. Even if the nut doesn't turn after 10-15 seconds, the heat that the impact is putting to the nut will help free it eventually. If there are some that are that stubborn, proceed to a different nut and wet the problem hardware again with PB Blaster. Obviously, you'll need a 18V or stronger cordless impact or a good air impact and strong compressor for this purpose.

There is a water passage at the rear of the right side cylinder head that is unused. Don't waste your time trying to replace the gasket there, unless it is leaking. I can virtually guarantee you that you will break the bolt heads at the cover, thus resulting in thread repair to the heads.

In my opinion, it is easy enough to remove the engine that I wouldn't include a head gasket job as a good WYAIT preventive maintenance duty. Also, a head gasket job is one of the hardest a DIYer can attempt because of the tools and resources doing the job correctly will require. Too many problems can result from using the incorrect tools.

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14 Jan 2013 11:48 #13184 by xstepson
Replied by xstepson on topic Pulling motor and refresh suggestions
Here's my reasoning on doing the head gaskets: Okay, you reseal the whole rest of the engine, you reinstall the engine. It starts and you drive it. You drive it twice after doing all that work and you find that the head gasket has begun leaking (either oil bubbling out of a head bolt, the car getting hot, oil in the coolant, coolant in the oil, or just a loss of compression.)
What are the chances that you are going to want to spend all that money and all that time all over again to pull the engine, replace the head gaskets, and re-reseal the engine again? Probably not good odds there.
So what happens to most cars of this ilk? They get sold for parts.

Don't sell your car for parts. Do the headgaskets while you are there. It is not brain surgery.

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14 Jan 2013 12:13 #13185 by Kiln_Red
Replied by Kiln_Red on topic Pulling motor and refresh suggestions
Definitely hypothetical situations worth considering, John. How convenient it must be for Michael to have at least two different perspectives to consider with regard to head gasket maintenance. I suppose I adopt the approach of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Obviously, that philosophy is the exception rather than the rule as it concerns 928s. :D

There aren't too many areas of the car that I'd offer similar advice.

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14 Jan 2013 12:36 #13186 by Kiln_Red
Replied by Kiln_Red on topic Pulling motor and refresh suggestions
No one has mentioned the con rod bearings, but those would be worth doing if it were me.

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14 Jan 2013 13:32 #13187 by mm928
Replied by mm928 on topic Pulling motor and refresh suggestions
Good thoughts gents. I believe I will stop short of the heads. We will get a better looks once it is out as well.

1983 928S - 16v 4.7L L-Jetronic
Dark Grey w/ Blue Leather
85/86 exhaust manifolds
Y-Pipe
SS Hi-perf Cat
S4 springs
Bilstein shocks
Air pump delete
VIN: WP0JB0926DS861180
- - Isn't Life great? - -

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14 Jan 2013 19:33 #13198 by xstepson
Replied by xstepson on topic Pulling motor and refresh suggestions

No one has mentioned the con rod bearings, but those would be worth doing if it were me.


LOL! Austin, we definitely do come at it from different philosophies! I wouldn't mess with the con rod bearings at all. I have replaced 3 sets so far. And each time, I was sorry that I did. All 3 engines had well over 100K miles and all the existing con rod bearings were virtually perfect upon removal and inspection. I was already into it, so I went ahead and finished the job, but I could've/should've used the money spent for new con rods for something else.

Head gaskets, though: 'nother story! :)

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14 Jan 2013 22:24 #13203 by Kiln_Red
Replied by Kiln_Red on topic Pulling motor and refresh suggestions
John, I'll admit that I haven't ever removed con rod bearings that were out of spec on a 928 either. Point taken. That being said, the con rod bearings are too easy to do for me to ignore with the engine removed. As you know, both bearings and gaskets don't last forever. I'll roll the dice and reuse head gaskets over engine bearings any day. Would you rather pull heads OR split the block, align bore, machine/replace the crank, replace bearings, etc. etc. But if one was going that far to rebuild the engine at the expense of a spun bearing, they might be tempted to replace rings, send their block to 928 Motorsports to have their bores redone, etc. etc.

Assuming you pull the heads without creating unnecessary damage, do you stop at replacing the gaskets? Would that not be a prime opportunity to have the heads redone? Certainly, that isn't cheap preventive maintenance for a 928 that doesn't smoke.

Again, this is just the way I prioritize things. The reality is that there are many different ways to skin a cat. :)

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16 Jan 2013 18:54 #13224 by xstepson
Replied by xstepson on topic Pulling motor and refresh suggestions

The reality is that there are many different ways to skin a cat. :)


Not to condone skinning cats, but I agree 100%

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16 Jan 2013 19:16 #13225 by mm928
Replied by mm928 on topic Pulling motor and refresh suggestions
Nice discussion we have going here...

1983 928S - 16v 4.7L L-Jetronic
Dark Grey w/ Blue Leather
85/86 exhaust manifolds
Y-Pipe
SS Hi-perf Cat
S4 springs
Bilstein shocks
Air pump delete
VIN: WP0JB0926DS861180
- - Isn't Life great? - -

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12 Feb 2013 10:34 #13524 by michael_hemingway
Replied by michael_hemingway on topic Pulling motor and refresh suggestions
I completed a rebuild on a 79 4.5L into a hot rod 5.1L with 160K miles last month (used a bored/plated 5.0L block as the basis). My experience with the crank, main and rod bearings was that they were in near-perfect condition and did not need to be replaced at 160K miles. The oil/filter has been changed at least once per year with Mobil1 (I am the owner since 1981 and have the records since new). However, since I do not plan on another rebuild for at least 150K miles I replaced all the bearings. I did not touch the crank as it was perfect, still had a nice polish.
The bottom line for me, from what I have seen, is that as long as the engine has been well taken care of, and no oil starvation issue (revs above 7K), I believe the original main and rod bearings should be good for at least 250K miles.
Mike Hemingway

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12 Feb 2013 20:12 #13529 by pcar928fan
Replied by pcar928fan on topic Pulling motor and refresh suggestions
Mike, I think you are correct!

James
78 Silver / Black-white #295
84 Ruby Red / Black AO84
88 Dark Blue / Linen-Black
92 Polar Silver / Dark Blue 92EURO
93 Arrow Blue / Black

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20 Mar 2013 08:48 #13946 by mm928
Replied by mm928 on topic Pulling motor and refresh suggestions
Thanks all, the engine is out! We are starting to take a close look at it now and making a list of things I need to order. Hopefuuly it will be back in, with the new powdercoated Spider (see other post) mby Easter!

More later

1983 928S - 16v 4.7L L-Jetronic
Dark Grey w/ Blue Leather
85/86 exhaust manifolds
Y-Pipe
SS Hi-perf Cat
S4 springs
Bilstein shocks
Air pump delete
VIN: WP0JB0926DS861180
- - Isn't Life great? - -

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