Headlight

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25 Dec 2011 11:34 #7509 by patanna2
Headlight was created by patanna2
When I turned on the headlight last rnight the back cover on the head light came off the sealbeam housing and inbedded itself in the back recess.
I did the following steps. Remove sealbeam next I disconnected the ground post connection on the battery turned on the ignition and headlight switch and touched the ground to the terminal in incriments to rotate the headlight to give me maximum space to reach in and pull out the cover. I eventualy got the cover off but in the process I pressed down on the rotating platform and have it out of sinc. When I put power on and turned on the headlights both would not lay flat they were off by about an inch. I pushed down on them and know they won't come up. When I rotate the light switch just the parking lights come on the head light remain off and facing up. Close exam reveiled the covers are missing the chrome rings that go around the sealbeam causing the problem in the first place. I need help. If anyone has any suggestions and if anybody has a set of rings that go around the covers I'd be interested in buying them.
Any guidance would be appreciated.
Pat.

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25 Dec 2011 12:00 #7510 by pcar928fan
Replied by pcar928fan on topic Headlight
I am sorry I can't help at this moment, but I don't even have a clear picture of what actually happened... So you turned the lights on and they came up and turned on but the plastic rear cover for the headlight assembly came off and was stuck down in the fender well? Is that right?

Then you did the thing with the battery unhooked to try and move the headlights so you could get that piece out. Now they are neither lined up NOR working???

You know that there is a manual turn knob under the hood that has a rubber boot over it so that you can turn them as much or as little as you want right??? Reading a manual can be a BIG help in issues like this. Of course many of our cars no longer have their manuals, but I would say that is the first purchase that should be made for a car that didn't come with one...

James
78 Silver / Black-white #295
84 Ruby Red / Black AO84
88 Dark Blue / Linen-Black
92 Polar Silver / Dark Blue 92EURO
93 Arrow Blue / Black

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25 Dec 2011 14:09 #7512 by 928mac
Replied by 928mac on topic Headlight
You can find the procedure here I believe on Nichol's page. Let us know

This link is under our technical library forum here forums.928oc.org/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=16
under links to external 928 areas

nichols.nu/tips.htm

.

.

.

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25 Dec 2011 14:26 #7513 by patanna2
Replied by patanna2 on topic Headlight
James I found the motor and rotated the headliights, but damage was done. The left light where it pivits is disconnected. There is no resistence when I push up or down and the lights remained on with the key on and lightswitch off. I had to disconnect from back of sealbeam to get them to stay off might be a micro switch not making contact. My next feat is to figure out how to gain access inside the left fender to see what needs to be repaired/ attached.

Thanks James you were a big help.

Pat

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25 Dec 2011 17:25 #7514 by the flying scotsman
Replied by the flying scotsman on topic Headlight
First......lets be clear which headlight we're talking about....drivers side?

The pivot mechanism has a tendancy to fail in that the E clips pop off. If thats the case here please inspect asap that the arm that popped off isnt making holes in the rad.....it does that :(

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25 Dec 2011 19:04 #7515 by 928mac
Replied by 928mac on topic Headlight

First......lets be clear which headlight we're talking about....drivers side?

The pivot mechanism has a tendancy to fail in that the E clips pop off. If thats the case here please inspect asap that the arm that popped off isnt making holes in the rad.....it does that :(


I was just going to say that Malcolm.

Here are some pictures.

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25 Dec 2011 19:15 #7516 by the flying scotsman
Replied by the flying scotsman on topic Headlight
sure u were Brad :p

the 2nd pic shows clips in situ but these are not OEM but are a more secure version thereof.

its worth a good look and verify.

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25 Dec 2011 21:48 #7518 by pcar928fan
Replied by pcar928fan on topic Headlight
I don't think I was ANY help... Sorry I couldn't be more. These other guys are helpful... I am just a PITA! ;)

James
78 Silver / Black-white #295
84 Ruby Red / Black AO84
88 Dark Blue / Linen-Black
92 Polar Silver / Dark Blue 92EURO
93 Arrow Blue / Black

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26 Dec 2011 12:09 #7519 by patanna2
Replied by patanna2 on topic Headlight
Thanks for the info you guys. I tried to gain access to the link in the library kept coming back internet exp could not open link. The pictures were a great help clip is OK and it's the drivers side I am having problems with. I still have to figure out how to get at the internals of the drivers side headligh. I guess the next step is take it to a services station and put it up on a lift remove the tire and see if there is a access panel I can remove so I can inspect and go from there.

Pat

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26 Dec 2011 14:15 #7520 by 928mac
Replied by 928mac on topic Headlight

Thanks for the info you guys. I tried to gain access to the link in the library kept coming back internet exp could not open link. The pictures were a great help clip is OK and it's the drivers side I am having problems with. I still have to figure out how to get at the internals of the drivers side headligh. I guess the next step is take it to a services station and put it up on a lift remove the tire and see if there is a access panel I can remove so I can inspect and go from there.

Pat


ok if you are having trouble ILL paste the info.

*********************

Position Adjustment / Correction of Looseness

Is there an adjustment to tighten up a headlight assembly when up. It is the entire lamp assembly enclosure) that pops up when you turn on the lights, not the headlamp itself. The play is where the lamp assembly connects to the shaft driven up by the headlamp motor. My driver side (85S) headlamp unit has a bit of play (mainly front to back) in it and shakes a little when driving with lights on. The passenger side is solid.


Yes, there are two bolts on each end of the actuator shaft. If they are loose, the headlight assembly will wobble and be off-center within the fender cutout. You can see these actuator bolts when the lights are up (or is it down?). Either way, they are easy to access and tighten. When loose, this allows adjustment of the headlight left-right within the fender cutout.

Additionally, there are two bolts that attach the plastic support bushing to the bulkhead that the rod passes through. These may be loose, or the bushing may be broken. When loosened, this allows adjustment of the headlight front-back within the fender cutout.

Another problem could be the detent spring that holds the headlight in position. This spring assembly is a safety feature that allows the headlight to push back several inches in the event it hits an obstruction. Try gently pulling the headlight assembly to the front while in the raised position. If it moves, then this detent assembly may be broken.

Randy Venier
San Diego, California
'79 928C



It will be the plastic guide bush located on the inside of each wing which is broken (mine snapped in half and the whole assembly rocked when the lights are up.)

It is a pig to replace the relatively cheap part.
My method of correction is a jubilee cilp (hose clamp) on the main bar to the bodywork.

Its been on 3 years and no problems.

Hope this helps,

Tim 84 s2 auto

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27 Dec 2011 11:57 #7525 by patanna2
Replied by patanna2 on topic Headlight
I'm having trouble visualizing the parts discribed in the thread. You mentioned fender cutout so I asume that if I remove LF tire I will be able to remove an access panal and see the parts you described?

Pat

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27 Dec 2011 13:42 #7526 by 928mac
Replied by 928mac on topic Headlight
Depending on your car, you may be able to see the mechanism by laying down and looking up under the left corner in front of the frt tire.
You may have to remove a plastic cover.

I have not worked on that area yet

Brad

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27 Dec 2011 15:27 #7527 by martinss
Replied by martinss on topic Headlight
If you remove the driver's front wheel, you will see a flat semi-hard plastic panel at the front, and a flexible plastic wheel liner 'over the wheel and rearward. If you remove the front panel you will have very easy access to all of the headlight mechanism that is under the fender (i.e the part not accessible from under the hood). You will find that as you try to remove the panel there are a couple of things attached, including the air hose going to the alternator for cooling - it is a bit of a pain to remove, but not too bad. Once that is done you will be happy with the degree of access afforded.

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27 Dec 2011 18:30 #7530 by patanna2
Replied by patanna2 on topic Headlight
Well, you guys have given me my marching orders as soon as I can line up a lift to get the car up where I can work on it I'l check the damage and proceed with the repairs. I'm in my 70's so getting down on my back are days long past. I want to thank you all Martin,Brad,Randy, Malcolm and those who were nameless you were all a big help. While I have your attention let me put this idea out and see what you think. I've been toying with the idea of doing away with the pop ups and putting in fixed head lights. My resurch has found that 2001 Volkwagen headlight chrome rims and p;lastic covers (91/2 X11 1/2 high) are the right fit. What's the feasibility of converting.

Pat

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27 Dec 2011 21:20 #7531 by 928mac
Replied by 928mac on topic Headlight
Hey Pat, first I must say that I am happy to know someone your age that has jumped into the Porsche 928 super car.
I'm only 20 years behind you.

I would like to recommend that you find another 928 owner in your area that is willing to help you out, or do your repairs.

on our forum there is a section called "Road Side Assistance"
I copied the link for you here
forums.928oc.org/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=15

What you do is look for someone that is close enough and give them a phone call.
Ask them if they would be willing to help you out. You may be surprised, I hope.

You can also put your name in there (just like the others)
as just a contact if someone breaks down in your area and needs a ride to a hotel or tow truck.

Brad
BTW keep on, keeping on

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28 Dec 2011 13:00 #7537 by patanna2
Replied by patanna2 on topic Headlight
Brad,
Took your advise and posted a thread on the roadside assist list. Do you think converting headlights using Volks chrome rims and plastic covers and doing away with sealbeams and install a 2011 ventage lighting system is worth exploring?

Pat

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28 Dec 2011 13:41 #7538 by 928mac
Replied by 928mac on topic Headlight

Brad,
Took your advise and posted a thread on the roadside assist list. Do you think converting headlights using Volks chrome rims and plastic covers and doing away with sealbeams and install a 2011 ventage lighting system is worth exploring?

Pat


Oh! . . . you were just suppose to look to see if one of the address's was close to you. ha ha and give them a call. Oh well I am sure the mod for that thread will delete it.

About changing the head lights, I would not but that is me.
I am guessing that it would cost thousands of dollars by the time it is changed over.

edit: Pat I see that it is just your contact details on the road side forum so no worries.

Brad

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28 Dec 2011 20:40 #7541 by martinss
Replied by martinss on topic Headlight

Brad,
Took your advise and posted a thread on the roadside assist list. Do you think converting headlights using Volks chrome rims and plastic covers and doing away with sealbeams and install a 2011 ventage lighting system is worth exploring?

Pat


Of course you have two obvious choices when replacing the headlight - just replace the actual headlamp but leave the pop-up mechanism alone, or do away with the popup. For the first you can go with a later model lamp with separate bulb (giving you the chance for modern, whiter bulbs), which is also larger in diameter and does not have the chrome ring of the earlier cars.
    BTW, I'm assuming you have an earlier car because of your reference to the chrome ring and sealed beam. The later style lights come in North American and European versions.

The headlights are a 'trademark' characteristic of the 928. They are almost unique, but of course the earlier Lamborghini Miura had something similar.

I recall reading that the configuration was a design decision to visually 'break-up' the comparatively long hood.

So IMO have to be careful doing something that would really change the appearance of the car. There are a few special order examples from the factory with 944 style popups - the resulting car looks less distinctive in my opinion, but to each his own. A later model light would likely be cheapest (but nothing in a P-car is cheap) and most 'authentic'.

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02 Jan 2012 11:05 #7588 by patanna2
Replied by patanna2 on topic Headlight
Thanks for the info a lot of food for thought on converting pop ups. I have an appointment tomorrow to put the 928 on a lift and give a look to asses the damage I might have caused while trying to remove the cover from the fender recess. Wish me luck.

Pat

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04 Jan 2012 23:17 #7626 by 19psi
Replied by 19psi on topic Headlight

There are a few special order examples from the factory with 944 style popups - the resulting car looks less distinctive in my opinion, but to each his own.


Not to highjack the thread but this has been intriguing me since I saw it on ebay:

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Is this the special order you mentioned above? I thought it looked factory yet cheap and bland compared to the original so not worth doing as a custom.

Do you have any more information such as why Porsche would even go through the retooling expense to offer such an option?

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05 Jan 2012 18:32 #7636 by pcar928fan
Replied by pcar928fan on topic Headlight
That was a factory option but I think there were some aftermarket ones done as well.

James
78 Silver / Black-white #295
84 Ruby Red / Black AO84
88 Dark Blue / Linen-Black
92 Polar Silver / Dark Blue 92EURO
93 Arrow Blue / Black

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23 Jan 2012 19:18 #7890 by patanna2
Replied by patanna2 on topic Headlight
Found out the motor that operates the head lights is not operating checked fuse it's OK.

Pat

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23 Jan 2012 20:55 #7891 by pcar928fan
Replied by pcar928fan on topic Headlight
Call 928 International and get a used warranteed one.

James
78 Silver / Black-white #295
84 Ruby Red / Black AO84
88 Dark Blue / Linen-Black
92 Polar Silver / Dark Blue 92EURO
93 Arrow Blue / Black

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23 Jan 2012 22:22 #7894 by 928mac
Replied by 928mac on topic Headlight

Found out the motor that operates the head lights is not operating checked fuse it's OK.

Pat


Pat, if you have a meter and can test for power with the motor unplugged while someone turns the switch on and off, that will tell you if you are getting power up to that point or to the motor.
If not then there may be another connector or relay closer to the fuse but still under the hood.
Its called tracing back to find the problem.

It could be a switch, could be a relay or a corroded wire somewhere. Verify before you buy.

If know one has done this and speaks up then I will help you but I have not dug into the head lamp wiring yet.

Do me a favor though. Take exact pictures of every test at a connector so that I know exactly what you have done.

Have you started a car profile thread yet, if not you should.
It is a journal of your car.
I record everything I do with detailed pictures for future reference, and it helps others that might have the same problem down the road.

Brad

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28 Jan 2012 11:46 #7955 by patanna2
Replied by patanna2 on topic Headlight
Inspection while up on the lift points to a burnt motor. Now the search is on to find one.

Pat

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31 Jan 2012 18:45 #8027 by patanna2
Replied by patanna2 on topic Headlight
Brad,
I had to unplug the connections from the back of the seal beams so the lights would go off. I'm trying to figure out how to get at the motor so I can bench check it before I order one from 928 International. You mentioned unplug it, What is the best way to access the motor?

Pat

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31 Jan 2012 20:01 #8028 by 928mac
Replied by 928mac on topic Headlight

Brad,
I had to unplug the connections from the back of the seal beams so the lights would go off. I'm trying to figure out how to get at the motor so I can bench check it before I order one from 928 International. You mentioned unplug it, What is the best way to access the motor?

Pat



Just wait Pat!, did you say you had to unplug the lamp at the bulb for them to go out.
You should have mentioned that before as that it one of the symptoms that I did not know.
you said they would not go down....(ILL have to reread your OP)

Well they will not go down if the lamp is still on (maybe due to a stuck relay or welded switch.)

ILL re-read and BRB

OK I went back and re-read the thread.

Originally the motor worked but a cover jammed.
then you leaned on the bar(platform you say) and put them out of sinc.
you then say you got them down but one sat higher then the other.
then you said (I pushed down on them and know they won't come up.)
and then you said (When I rotate the light switch just the parking lights come on the head light remain off and facing up.) [is this facing the sky or forward?]
Then you go right in to the chrome rings.

Pat we have asked you for pictures
and given lots of instruction but you have to stay on track.

Did you do what Martin said and remove the panel behind the wheel and verify what broke or moved when you leaned on it?

I am betting that if you printed the instructions I posted and took them to the shop where you had it on the lift, he would have it fixed in an hour or 2.
I am guessing that the lights need to be in the same position for the power to work the motor but maybe I am wrong.

I don't know how to instruct you any further.

If you are having trouble using your computer to do any of the stuff we have asked then you need to ask someone like a child or grand child to help.

If we are blind then we can not lead you very well.

I hope you get someone to assist you by posting some pictures and accessing the work shop manual on line.

Brad

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02 Feb 2012 13:01 #8069 by patanna2
Replied by patanna2 on topic Headlight
Brad,
Stated in previous threads that I had to disconnect seal beam to get them to shut off. I put 928 up on lift, removed tire and checked linkage looked OK I think. Will proceed with checking motor as per your guidelines. Can't figure out posting of pictures will forgo that operation.

Pat

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02 Feb 2012 20:41 #8083 by the flying scotsman
Replied by the flying scotsman on topic Headlight
Pat....the headlight operation on a 928, like quite a few operations, is not quite same as other cars.

The headlights should come up and light up when the switch is on the third position. The reverse should happen when the same switch is on the first position, off. The headlights will stay up but not lit if you switch off the ignition before the switch is returned to the first position.

If your headlights are on despite the switch being on first position and the ignition off then Id pull the fuses and see what happens. If they stay lit pull the relays and see what happens then report back.

Also, if you dont have one, read the owners manual to understand the operation of the system. Theyre available online also.

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