Starter is kaput! Why am I smiling?

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01 Feb 2012 20:26 #8059 by mm928
Well let me explain. Yes I have a bad starter solenoid, however, I went through the troubleshooting steps, read a few tips from good ol Wally, and proved what I suspected. For someone who has to worked on cars to this degree before, this is a rewarding moment and makes me feel better about doing some of my own work. It also shows again why our board and others are invaluable sources of help and that with a little patience and study, you can enjoy your supercar ownership more by being able to participate in the improvement or maintenance of your car.
So I have lift bars from Ken on the way, I am going to buy 4 good jacks, and make sure I get the tools and accessories I need to be able to do more of my own work in my garage. I know this may not be exciting for you guys that have done this most of your life, but for other newbies or non-wrenchers, I just wanted to encourage their participation in working on their cars. Just ask questions, do the research and take your time.

Symptom - no turnover of the starter, not even hearing the impeller/drive clank
Absolute cricket silence.
Interior lights- not dimming at all
Turned on headlamps- went way dark
Battery check- 12.4 to 12.6
Driven fine the day before
Starter relay - new and good (heard a click when turning on ignition)
Fuel injector relay - new and good
Fuel pump relay - new and good (heard fuel pump energize)
Front jump point - 12.2 to 12.4 volts
Front wiring harness and 14 pin connector had been previously repaired/upgraded
That led me to raise the car (not currently very easy) and checked the starter connections. The yellow connection from the 14 pin connector was solid, but the blue wire connector was loose, not outside, but inside the solenoid! Jiggled it and tried the ignition (that switch was also new) and finally heard that familiar ( if you are old enough, ha) brrr brrr brrr sound of a bad solenoid. Like back in the 70's when you Mustang would not start.

So I am going to replace with a smaller hi-torque mini starter as the my current one is a PITA according to my friend and mech to put it in. BTW, it was a recon starter, not new. It only lasted a year. But I also had some other starting issues (covered by another thread) previously that may have put some pressure on it as well... Not sure.

So if any of you have used a mini starter and have an suggestions or ideas, please let me know.

1983 928S - 16v 4.7L L-Jetronic
Dark Grey w/ Blue Leather
85/86 exhaust manifolds
Y-Pipe
SS Hi-perf Cat
S4 springs
Bilstein shocks
Air pump delete
VIN: WP0JB0926DS861180
- - Isn't Life great? - -

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01 Feb 2012 21:26 #8060 by pcar928fan
Replied by pcar928fan on topic Starter is kaput! Why am I smiling?
Excellent! Well done!

James
78 Silver / Black-white #295
84 Ruby Red / Black AO84
88 Dark Blue / Linen-Black
92 Polar Silver / Dark Blue 92EURO
93 Arrow Blue / Black

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02 Feb 2012 00:10 #8063 by 928mac
Replied by 928mac on topic Starter is kaput! Why am I smiling?
Way to go Mike.
You don't want to cheep out on the jack stands, your life depends on them.
I use 4 six ton to support the car and 2 three ton for using under the car to support things. I also found a tinny 2 ton bottle jack handy.

For a basic tool set Craftsman is good enough.
Well your there get an upright craftsman tool box to hold them all.

You will find that you will have to buy the odd large socket or tool but you will be happy to show off and use your new tools. (On Your Porsche)

Because there is no other !! .

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02 Feb 2012 16:22 #8078 by mm928
Replied by mm928 on topic Starter is kaput! Why am I smiling?
Thanks guys appreciate the comments. I am going with Roger's IMI mini starter. They just came in and he has ready to go for a 928 including orientation and electrics.

Right on on the jacks Mac. I was planning on 6 ton ones my self. Had not thought about the bottle jack though...good one.

Ken advised the lift bars are being shipped out now, so hopefully in a couple of weeks I will be cranking it up!

Will let you know how it goes!

1983 928S - 16v 4.7L L-Jetronic
Dark Grey w/ Blue Leather
85/86 exhaust manifolds
Y-Pipe
SS Hi-perf Cat
S4 springs
Bilstein shocks
Air pump delete
VIN: WP0JB0926DS861180
- - Isn't Life great? - -

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14 Feb 2012 21:21 #8201 by mm928
Replied by mm928 on topic Starter is kaput! Why am I smiling?
All parts are in, the old one is out, the lift-bars work great. New starter goes in Friday. Pics and details to follow.

1983 928S - 16v 4.7L L-Jetronic
Dark Grey w/ Blue Leather
85/86 exhaust manifolds
Y-Pipe
SS Hi-perf Cat
S4 springs
Bilstein shocks
Air pump delete
VIN: WP0JB0926DS861180
- - Isn't Life great? - -

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19 Feb 2012 21:21 #8250 by mm928
Replied by mm928 on topic Starter is kaput! Why am I smiling?
Well finally....thanks to my son-in-law whose body and fingers are smaller than mine... Ha. Point of reference - I got the new 928 specific 700+ ft lb of torque IMI starter. Less than 9 lbs. It it specific because it has more torque than previous ones, and the electical connections are all on the side or bottom, this removes the possibility of arcing against the bottom of the engine.

Ok so here are my comments - Pics will come as well
1 - taking out the old one is a X%^4&*!!!, we had to use muscle and a pry bar to get it past the sway bar (which was pretty well frozen in place).
But since the solenoid is shot,,,no need to be gentle with it.
2 - Ken's lift bars made it all possible, rock solid and not too worried about being under there with them in place.
2 - Took a wooden crate underneath to sit the starters on while wiring. Perfict height.
3 - Soldering under a car is not easy,,,better with two people.
4 - Heat shrink tubing is fun and cool - need a heat gun though not a hair dryer... don't ask
5 - Those 2 bolts sound easy, but the top one required an 8mm allen wrench bit, a 5 in extension and some small fingers to get it started. Thanks Ace Hardware.. :) Then it only took 5-10 minutes, after an hour of trying things.
6 - The wiring is slightly different on the Hi-Torque vs the Bosch. On the new one the Yellow AND Black harness wire go to the rubber covered space connector. You can slice yourself of course, however in the course of verifying this, I called IMI directly and they recommended a ready-made 2-1 wire, one side of which has a resistor in it. They said the black wire should not send power back up towards the harness,,,,thus they have a resistor on that part of the wire. They sent it for free so I waited 3 days and used it....no problem. The battery and alternator wire fit on the same large pole as on the original.
7 - After it was in and battery re-connected, I tried it and....whrrrr, whirr but no engine turn ???? WHAT??? on about the 4th try it started right up and has ever since. My friend says he thinks they are pretty tight when new and it just needed a couple of attempts to free it up. I think that makes some sense. And that is what it sounded like, it definitely did not turn the flywheel at first.
8 - It starts the engine quite quickly compared to the old one....neat.

Ok so that is pretty much it in a nutshell, my first real engine type work...I definitely learned patience, but it was certainly fun as well. Now to fix the Tranny leak, but I will leave that to a more knowledgable friend and do it with him. ;)

Attached files [img]media/attachments/8422=947-new_starter_small.jpg[/img] [img]media/attachments/8422=949-starter_compare.jpg[/img]

1983 928S - 16v 4.7L L-Jetronic
Dark Grey w/ Blue Leather
85/86 exhaust manifolds
Y-Pipe
SS Hi-perf Cat
S4 springs
Bilstein shocks
Air pump delete
VIN: WP0JB0926DS861180
- - Isn't Life great? - -

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20 Feb 2012 01:02 #8251 by 928mac
Replied by 928mac on topic Starter is kaput! Why am I smiling?
Awesome pictures Mike thanks so much for posting this for all the future 928 Owners.

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