Do you believe in oil additives?

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18 Oct 2012 19:49 #11897 by pdejong
I never have believed much in after market oil additives. But I recently got acquainted to a guy who sold this product: www.steelshieldtech.com
One of the claims this stuff makes, is a 30 degree lower gear case temperature. He gave me a free sample and I decided to test it. I glued a thermocouple to the rear of the differential case of my '90 GT. Ran the wire to the inside via the battery box and connected it to a temperature meter. Without the additive, I drove a 50 mile stretch on a flat highway at a constant 75 mph. After about 50 minutes the gear case temp stabilized at 165 to 170 degrees at an ambient about 90 deg hotter than ambient.

I then did the same test with the additive and not surprisingly I noticed absolutely no difference. I did the test 2 more times, thinking that the additive might need time to work itself into the gears, but there was no change.

On a recent trip with the Palmetto Region PCA to the tail of the Dragon in the Tennesee mountains, I kept watching the temperature while driving there, and the differential was running at about the same temperature, roughly 170 degrees. I was beginning to believe that this additive was no different than Magic Mistery Oil.

Driving home after the weekend in Tennesee, I noticed that the temperature was running lower. Thinking that the battery in my meter had run out, I changed it and the next day I made another run, identical to what I had initially done: 50 miles on the same road, same speed and same ambient of around 75-77 degrees. Lo and Behold, the temperature of the differential was now rising to no more than 145 - 148 degrees, a 70 degree rise.

I am no metallurgist or chemist, just a mechanical engineer and I do not understand the mechanism that makes this product work, but I have become a believer in it. It looks like the product needed some time to work itself in the metal (about 700 miles) . And I will be watching if the effect remains.
I would like to, but I am hesitant to put it in my engine oil, at least for now.

I wonder if anyone else has any good experience with additives?


Peter deJong
Charleston SC
'90 GT

Attached files [img]media/attachments/12243=1401-steelshield.jpg[/img]

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19 Oct 2012 03:02 #11900 by Kiln_Red
Interesting info and thank you for sharing! Personally, I've only added Mobil 15W-50 to my 928 crankcases. So no, I've never bought in to oil additives.

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22 Oct 2012 00:29 #11923 by 928mac
This may be a good time to share storage info

www.amsoil.com/news/2011_November_stored...needs_protection.pdf

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22 Oct 2012 21:09 #11934 by Ducman82
i just used TR-1 and used their ZEP additive. (per Greg B's advice)

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23 Oct 2012 10:31 #11950 by mm928
For now I follow Porsche's recommedations to not use engine oil additives. To me this means as an all-the-time general use product.
I do see the value in cleaning products like BG for various components. I know that times and technology change, so for things other than engine, I might give it a try.

I whole heartingly endorse BG cleaning products however, I have used them to great results. Although it does make me nervous to not know how something is accomplishing it stated purpose, I guess you want to ensure it is not sacrificing something else to do it.

1983 928S - 16v 4.7L L-Jetronic
Dark Grey w/ Blue Leather
85/86 exhaust manifolds
Y-Pipe
SS Hi-perf Cat
S4 springs
Bilstein shocks
Air pump delete
VIN: WP0JB0926DS861180
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30 Oct 2012 19:12 #12170 by Normy1
"Just put Castrol in it"

A mechanic in Michigan that I knew well. His diesel VW pickup ran 400,000 miles before it needed an overhaul.

N

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31 Oct 2012 23:23 #12227 by 928mac

"Just put Castrol in it"

A mechanic in Michigan that I knew well. His diesel VW pickup ran 400,000 miles before it needed an overhaul.

N


Ya-but a VW diesel will run 400,000 on sowing machine oil

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04 Nov 2012 19:11 #12300 by Normy1
"Ya-but a VW diesel will run 400,000 on sowing machine oil"

That's not exactly true. They need some sort of kerosene to run. The diesel injection pump on that car is actually quite sensitive to sulfur content. People put Jet-A in these and don't understand why they start running rough after a few thousand miles.

-I was a flight instructor at one time, earning about $10k per year. One of my students was a former chemical/petroleum engineer from South Korea. We had a talk about the Shell ashless dispersant oil used in the 6.0 liter 180 hp air cooled four cylinder engines on the Piper Seminole we were flying, and he told me that unless I was running extremely high compression and/or a high boost turbo, basically race cars...then anything other than simple dino oil was a WASTE.

"You...don't...need it. Just change oil"

The rare properties of synthetic oil simply are NOT needed in any sort of street car. He told me to "pick" a brand, and always use it. DON'T mix oil brands! This might cause "kudos", or tar-like oil deposits to come loose and plug up the oil filter.

I follow his advice to this day, and put Castrol in all my engines. I suspect that all the other brands are about the same.

N!

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04 Nov 2012 23:37 #12304 by 928mac

"Ya-but a VW diesel will run 400,000 on sowing machine oil"

That's not exactly true. They need some sort of kerosene to run. The diesel injection pump on that car is actually quite sensitive to sulfur content. People put Jet-A in these and don't understand why they start running rough after a few thousand miles.
I agree but that is the fuel (injection pump)
-I was a flight instructor at one time, earning about $10k per year. One of my students was a former chemical/petroleum engineer from South Korea. We had a talk about the Shell ashless dispersant oil used in the 6.0 liter 180 hp air cooled four cylinder engines on the Piper Seminole we were flying, and he told me that unless I was running extremely high compression and/or a high boost turbo, basically race cars...then anything other than simple dino oil was a WASTE.

If he is saying that low ash is not a requirement then well ya, your oil just gets dirtier faster.
Not something I would take lightly.
If he is saying that you can run normal oil in anything but a race car, then he needs to go back to korea


"You...don't...need it. Just change oil"

The rare properties of synthetic oil simply are NOT needed in any sort of street car. He told me to "pick" a brand, and always use it. DON'T mix oil brands! This might cause "kudos", or tar-like oil deposits to come loose and plug up the oil filter.

I follow his advice to this day, and put Castrol in all my engines. I suspect that all the other brands are about the same.

N!


I am sorry to disagree Normy but not all oils are created equal. If you want to listen to him, then good luck.

I am being blunt for a reason, not to be an ass, (Because I know this stuff and I do not want 928 engines failing because of hear say)

You are right that normal oil under normal conditions will normally suffice.

but

Dealers dont just recommend synthetic oils because they think they need it or because it might help,
it is because they need the protection from the severe heat or severe cold climate or extreme internal engine pressures.

My earlier comment was complimenting the VW diesel (jetta) for its durability, but it also requires heavy oil with high zinc (common in diesel oil)
for its flat tappet cams.

I dont think our engines care what brand you buy, as long as it has a high zinc content (1200 recommended) and that the viscosity is correct for the conditions, pressures and cooling

here are some other threads
forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-914-914-...-zinc-additives.html

forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/928-forum...sity-do-you-use.html

www.lindseyracing.com/LR/Parts/GENZDDPLUS.html

.


.

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07 Nov 2012 14:39 #12362 by Chuckster
I generally keep my comments to myself but since I have spent 25 years designing and building oil refining and proceesing plants all over the world for most of the major oil companies I consider myself qualified to comment. Without exception aftermarketoil additives are ineffective. The same can be said of some oil additives included in the oil you buy from the store. It is marketing and giving the consumer ''something extra''. What does the work? The actual hydrocarbon lubricant. If you want to keep your engine alive longer, have a system that gives you oil pressure before the engine starts. That is when most engine wear happens, by far!
Follow the recomended viscosities for the temperature you are operating in and you should be fine. I have run straight 50 and 60 weight in my hot rods and motorcycles during the summers in Houston without failure. As far as mixing different oils, don't mix synthetic with hydrocarbon. If you want to change brands at your next oil change by all means change. It won't make any difference to your engine.
Oil is much better and consistent today than it was 30 or 20 even 15 years ago. If it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling to spend extra money on additives, spend away. If you operate your 928 to the extreme that ZDDP or PTFE is going to make any difference, you are going to replace worn parts regularly anyway.

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07 Nov 2012 15:19 #12363 by OBehave
I would have to agree with Chuck. All my life I have been changing my oil and prior customer's vehicle oil at 3-5000miles regularly.With synthetics now 7500 miles and I have never blown or had customers vehicle blow up or suffer any lubrication related damage. Some would bring me Slick 50 and the like and I refused to put it in. I would tell them the same as Chuck. Snake oil.

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08 Nov 2012 07:52 #12391 by wallyp
Up until a few years ago, I was in the snake oil camp. I'm not so certain anymore.

The reason for my uncertainty is that until recently, the goal of the oil companies was to furnish the best lubricant possible in terms of preventing wear for a reasonable time.

Unfortunately, the goals have changed - now, they appear to be, don't hurt the cats, and get the best fuel economy possible without blowing the engine up in normal driving, while assuming that you have an engine designed and built less than ten years ago.

Eventually, it will be tough to find the viscosity and formulation needed for our antique engines...

Wally Plumley
928 Specialists
www.928gt.com

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12 Nov 2012 17:27 #12524 by jwillman
I was recently having lifter/ valve noise at idle. I was already using Mobile 1 15w50. I put a 1/2 bottle of Rislone in the engine and almost immediately notice issues with idle oil oressure below 2 bar. The oil also turned very dark very quickly.

I did a front seal refresh and oil change at which time I added Swebco 502 per recommendation on Rennlist.

Valve / lifter noise at idle is gone, oil pressure at idle is a solid 2 bar!!

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13 Nov 2012 08:34 #12533 by linderpat
I'm with Wally on this one. Time to move to a specialty oil thru a dealer rep. Since I do this job just once a year, I guess that's not too much of a hassle.
Roger recommends Royal Purple, and have others. I will try that since there is a rep nearby where I live.

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14 Nov 2012 20:14 #12553 by ROG100
Not to change the direction of the thread - I used to believe in Marvel Mystery additive as a cleaning additive prior to changing the oil. I just stick with Royal Purple as it includes what it says it includes - most importantly for our cars ZZDP at 1200ppm.
I am also a fan of Swepco as it seems to work and is recommended by Porsche.
Noisy lifter add some Swepco 502 and it goes away.
I am sure other oils work equally as well. Just check what you are using.

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