Breaking Bolts

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27 Apr 2014 16:44 #17111 by joejabq
Breaking Bolts was created by joejabq
Hi everyone...

I'm a new OC member and new 928 owner.

Just picked up a 79- 928! The previous owner was working on a restoration, but handed it over to me. It's not running now, but it was driven into the garage 2 years ago. The interior is out, and the all of parts from the top of the engine has been taken off. The heads, water pump, timing belt are all still attached. I have degreased the engine.

I'd like to put the engine back together, changing parts that makes sense now, e.g., water pump, timing belt, etc. and get the engine running.

My first challenge is experiencing bolts breaking as I try to take them out. I'm currently working on the housing that the Warm-up unit sits on. One bolt on top and one that attaches this housing to the block were already broken. I PB blasted and then tried to EZ out the smaller bolt on the top of the housing. Unfortunately, the EZ out broke. I also tested one of the Hex head bolts that attaches this housing to block. It's solidly torqued down.

Do you folks have any advice on how to deal with this tough bolts? I'm tempted to put some heat to them, but could use a "voice of experience" so that I don't make matters worse! This feels like this will be reoccurring theme a I take this off this car!

Any advice would be appreciated!

joe

Attached files [img]media/attachments/17504=2548-boltsToBlock.jpg[/img] [img]media/attachments/17504=2547-brokenBolt.jpg[/img] [img]media/attachments/17504=2546-Joe'sPorsche928.jpg[/img]

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28 Apr 2014 06:49 #17114 by linderpat
Replied by linderpat on topic Breaking Bolts
I am not a fan of easy outs; I prefer reverse drills, as I've had problems with easy outs too. Also, be careful with heat up there due to proximity to fuel sources. If the fuel is all out, heat will work. Try the reverse drills after lots of overnight soaking with a good penetrant.

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28 Apr 2014 06:52 #17115 by wallyp
Replied by wallyp on topic Breaking Bolts
PB Blaster is a good penetrant. Apply the penetrant, rap on the fastener with a hammer (corrosion is brittle), reapply, wait a day or two, reapply, tap again, reapply, wait...

Try to loosen, then try to tighten (only go for a tiny bit of movement), repeat.

A small impact wrench sometimes will break it loose (corrosion is brittle).

Easy-outs rarely work.

Sometimes a left-handed drill bit will remove a broken fastener. If you have a stub sticking out, try to find a nut that can serve as a drill guide. MacGyvering a drill guide can save a huge amount of trouble.

Good luck!

Wally Plumley
928 Specialists
www.928gt.com

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28 Apr 2014 20:21 #17124 by 928mac
Replied by 928mac on topic Breaking Bolts
heat, lube, heat, lube

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28 Apr 2014 21:04 #17131 by joejabq
Replied by joejabq on topic Breaking Bolts
Thanks Ed and Wally!
I suspect that I may end up using all of these options during this restoration! EZ outs have worked for me before, but I've never worked on a 35 year old aluminum engine before.

I do have a follow-up question about using heat on a 928 engine.
Ed, there no fuel in the area now, so that shouldn't be an issue.
I'm just a little concerned with using too much heat for an aluminum block.
I was thinking of using a propane torch. I can measure the temperature, but how hot?
Any guidance here?

I'll pick up some reverse drills this week!
Thanks

Joe

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28 Apr 2014 22:09 #17133 by joejabq
Replied by joejabq on topic Breaking Bolts
Brad,
Thanks too!
Same question to you. How hot?

Joe

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29 Apr 2014 07:57 #17135 by wallyp
Replied by wallyp on topic Breaking Bolts
The block will transfer the heat from a propane torch away so quickly that you could not damage the block if you tried hard. Just watch out for rubber and plastic parts nearby.

Wally Plumley
928 Specialists
www.928gt.com

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29 Apr 2014 20:30 #17139 by joejabq
Replied by joejabq on topic Breaking Bolts
OK! thanks Wally....
I'll give it a go this weekend.

joe

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03 May 2014 17:33 #17161 by joejabq
Replied by joejabq on topic Breaking Bolts
OK... here's the report...

I happened to talked to Clint, at Kaman Industry Technologies while I was ordering some Kroil penetrating oil. Clint, who is also a machinist, suggested trying the Loctite Freeze and Release product, instead of throwing heat on the frozen bolts. They didn't happen to have it in stock, so I ordered the Loctite product to be in next week. While on the way home I stopped at O'Riley's. They had another version of the freeze the bolt product, CRC Freeze off. Both of the products appear to do the same thing... cold + a penetrating lubricant.

I as amazed at what the Freeze Off did! With a little working and a couple of cycles of freezing, my corroded bolts came out! And they were corroded! It was astounding!

I now have my bolt removal strategy for remainder of my project. I'll try the Loctite product next week. I have no reason to think that it wouldn't work as well or better than the CRC product. I found YouTube demonstrations of both products.

I'm not endorsing anything, of course, just reporting what happened. I hope it's useful to others. Here's the follow on picture of one of the stuck bolts already out and the other on the way out.

joe

Attached files [img]media/attachments/17554=2561-IMG_0457.jpg[/img]

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04 May 2014 10:26 #17165 by 928mac
Replied by 928mac on topic Breaking Bolts
Right on! and thanks for the information, please post a link to the product.
The cold works on the same theory as the heat.
The aluminum housing and the steel bolt expand and contract at different rates.
Like wally say it would be hard to get the housing hot enough to expand as the steel bolt will expand faster by collecting most of the heat.
It was adding the lubricant during the cooling off that one Hoped the corrosion would start to break off.

Now Why The Freezing worked better.
Same as above because the broken steel bolt changes temp faster than the aluminum and therefor shrinks faster than the aluminum housing.
This seems like the best method.
I have just never heard of any success stories at home.
In the shop where I work we use nitrogen and you can dam near shake the bolt out.

Thanks again and please post pictures and links in your car profile thread

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04 May 2014 20:10 #17167 by joejabq
Replied by joejabq on topic Breaking Bolts
Sure... here are some links:

CRC Freeze Off is what I used this weekend. I picked it up at O'Rielly's

crcindustries.com/auto/?s=05002





The other product that I'm going to try when it comes in is Loctite's Freeze and Release:

www.henkelna.com/loctite-freeze-release-7008.htm





I'm brand new to being a 928 owner and the club. I'll get my project up on the Profiles.

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