New 928OCIC Rules?

More
10 Apr 2013 10:25 #14295 by linderpat
New 928OCIC Rules? was created by linderpat
Just read my TSV, and I see the article on the Function at the Junction states that only members of the 928OC may register for the event (although they can bring family and friends), and that if a non-member with a 928 shows up, that person will be required to become a member before s/he can participate. The article states that the 928 OCIC is the convention for the 928 Owner's Club.

This is all very contrary to what I have understood the position to be in the past. In fact, I have never heard before that the 928 OCIC was an "official convention" of the Club, or that a person had to be a member of our group to participate. Am I missing something? (James has stated that OCIC's are not Club planned events, but that the Club will add it's banner to them).

Why are we getting so exclusive rather than inclusive? If only 928 OC members can participate/register for the event, then expect about 4 cars.
We do a sponsored 928 OC event here in Pittsburgh each summer at the Vintage Grand Prix (mark your calendars for July 20th by the way), and it is wide open to any 928 owners. We try to get new members when we can, but I would not sacrifice the event for it.

I have not heard the requirement before for being a 928 OC member to register and participate in a 928 OCIC. Has that been true in past events? If this is a new requirement, it seems like something that would or should require a MEMBER vote, and that has not happened.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
10 Apr 2013 11:04 #14296 by ROG100
Replied by ROG100 on topic New 928OCIC Rules?
Hi Ed,
You are totally correct.
The whole point is to attract new members - someone screwed up.
Roger

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
10 Apr 2013 11:48 #14297 by hb4
Replied by hb4 on topic New 928OCIC Rules?
Ed,
When I read that requirement, I wondered how anyone could check whether a non-OC guest was a 928 owner or not.

As you mentioned, James stated the OC's present policy is that OCICs are not OC planned events. Therefore, they are the planned event of the event's promoter who can set any rules they want. And if the promoter also publishes the OC newsletter that all OC members receive, they can publicize that event and their particular rules through that newsletter. Which might imply to the causal reader that it is OC policy even though it isn't.

If the intent was to encourage folks to join the OC, it seems to me that simply making the premium for attendance by non-member 928 owners five or ten dollars more than the annual OC dues would be more effective and direct.

I understand from some posts on here and RL that there is some consideration to changing (creating?) policy for future OCICs. It would be great to hear some discussion on those changes.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
10 Apr 2013 12:31 #14298 by Marc White
Replied by Marc White on topic New 928OCIC Rules?
I think Jerry wanted to basically accomplish what I wanted to do in 2000 and 2004. I included a $28 membership in the OC when pricing those programs and yes, the idea was to increase membership. Along with offering one Helluva 928 centric event in the middle of the country.

This has evolved or devolved over many years and numerous events and organizers. Jerry if you are reading this I might suggest you include the cost for a year membership and therefore remove the awkward "requirement" of them being an OC member.

Just thinking that might do the trick and relieve some apparent bad vibes.

Marc

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
10 Apr 2013 12:46 #14299 by Marc White
Replied by Marc White on topic New 928OCIC Rules?
Yes my intent has been to be completely inclusive and reading this we do need to express our desires to Jerry. I'll work on this and make a post on this thread with news.

Appreciate your input, thanks for pointing this out.

Best to all,
Marc

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
10 Apr 2013 13:09 #14300 by hb4
Replied by hb4 on topic New 928OCIC Rules?
Kudos!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
10 Apr 2013 17:51 #14301 by Marc White
Replied by Marc White on topic New 928OCIC Rules?
Thanks Bill and others interested in this thread. I'm happy to report I did have a phone conversation with Jerry today. His intent is to help OC membership and to be inclusive. His heart is in the right place and we are talking about getting the wording and particulars of this event in place.
The 928 OC Board has been preparing guidelines for operating an OCIC but have not finished this nor given Jerry this type of guidance. I will get this piece finished this week and get to Jerry and any interested member. I also hope to have agreement on some of the finer points with all involved and make a post here this week.

Thanks to all involved. I hope to see you in Grand Junction.

Best,
Marc

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
10 Apr 2013 18:12 #14302 by Alan
Replied by Alan on topic New 928OCIC Rules?
Marc - good job - That's what I recalled from Denver - I somehow magically became a member just by attending... a pretty good idea... and a good time!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
10 Apr 2013 20:25 #14303 by linderpat
Replied by linderpat on topic New 928OCIC Rules?
Thanks Marc. Appreciate the follow up.

Next course of action, somebody get Jerry a PR guy:D

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
10 Apr 2013 20:28 #14304 by pcar928fan
Replied by pcar928fan on topic New 928OCIC Rules?
Alan, et al, I would have preferred that this been addressed here more before being brought up on RL because things seem to explode over there for some reason.

As Marc noted and (Ed and Bill, etc) we are working on guidelines right now for the OCIC's as well as other events that we (YOUR CLUB) sponsor. It is the LEAST WE CAN DO as a board to assure you that YOUR dues are being spent wisely. You will of course see those guidelines HERE, not on Rennlist. So please watch these forums if you have further questions about this. Or you can email me directly. I am happy to answer your questions to the best of my ability.

As a bit of perspective and history on this. The 2009 event had about 25 new members join or renew ON SITE (most were new members, not renewals) and the funds from those membership fees were sent to the club by Roger, a bit over $500 as I recall. At the end of the event Roger also returned the $1500 that the club had agreed to provide as sponsorship (for an enduring memento, a T-shirt in this case). So that was a really nice gesture and I know the club appreciated it. We operate on a pretty small budget here! We are not the PCA with 55,000 members after all...in fact we are about 1% of their size!

For the 2012 event the club provided $2800 and I believe there was one new member who joined at the event and IIRC a few others joined later online, but the net was not more than 5 new members. I'm not sure how many members renewed because of that event. I was told roughly 2/3rds of attendees were members leaving 1/3rd who were not and we certainly didn't add more than a handful of those to our membership roles. Thus a good number of folks were supported by the club but didn't see the need to actually pay their dues and join to help sponsor other events.

I think it might have been the '04 event (or maybe it was the '09 event) where there was a financial incentive to join the club when you registered for the event. That is my preferred way to handle OCIC and membership/registration. But we will see if we include something like that in the guidelines we are working on.


EDIT:
Ed, I posted before I saw you last post! That is funny man! Jerry, we love you bro...well, I love you! You do great work and have more energy than I, we wouldn't have any kind of newsletter without you and I wouldn't be making a trip to CO this summer if not for your planning this GTG! You are a firecracker though and that does not always sit well! Thanks everyone we are going to have some good guidelines like the PCA does for Parade (though I hope not as intense as their guidelines...jeeze all those guys must have been lawyers! LOL!) when this is all said and done!

James
78 Silver / Black-white #295
84 Ruby Red / Black AO84
88 Dark Blue / Linen-Black
92 Polar Silver / Dark Blue 92EURO
93 Arrow Blue / Black

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
10 Apr 2013 21:59 #14306 by ROG100
Replied by ROG100 on topic New 928OCIC Rules?
At both the Dallas and Wichita events we offered an incentive to join the OC in making the registration cost for none members v members more expensive than the $28 to join the club. If attendees chose to pay the higher amount so be it. IIRC the vast majority of attendees were already OC members. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

JF is a one man train wreck for the OC until you get him under control and stop him making statements on behalf and for the OC - wake up and smell the coffee.

For Wichita the OC "PART" sponsored the cost of providing T shirts for the event. When requested to do so they also sponsored $2000 to help cover the cost for the main Dinner on the Friday night. This reduced the registration fee significantly for those attending. After doing this the then President (now a trustee) of the OC declared this a "WASTE" of money because it fed only "MEMBERS" of the OC and was unfair to the rest of the membership. IIRC he voted in favor.
My compnay 928sRus sponsored the event to a value of more than the combined contribution of the OC to the extent that I lost money - I have never complained about this and never will - in my opinion, money well spent from every direction. We all had a great time.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
10 Apr 2013 22:30 #14307 by the flying scotsman
thanks for the update Mark.......look forward to viewing the guidelines

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
13 Apr 2013 22:49 #14326 by pcar928fan
Replied by pcar928fan on topic New 928OCIC Rules?
Thanks Roger for the clarification. I was not on the board then so I was not aware of how any of those decisions were made about sponsorship of the '12 event.

Agree on the "lead a horse to water but can't make him drink" too!

We are working on the guidelines right now for future events (not just OCIC's) I hope we will have something together in a week or two. This stuff just takes time. I am still trying to think up scenarios that might come up that we need an answer for. Takes time to work through all those things.

See you Friday in Rockport! It will be my first trip to Rockport! How about that?! Probably bring the '95 because the A/C is REALLY WORKING GREAT in that car finally! Plus I like the stereo with the sharkwoofer and Hans door speakers! Plus the head unit is a nice Blau BT420! See you soon!

As for my friend Jerry (and he is my friend) he does not speak for the Board or the Owners Club. Because some may think otherwise that does not make it so. Even if a majority think Jerry is the mouth piece for the club that does not make it so. When he writes an article for TSV it is truly his view. I have said all this before and I am sure I will say it all again in the future and I don't mind doing so. It is like reading article in Panorama and assuming that is what the board of the PCA says, thinks or agrees with. I actually think they have a disclaimer in the magazine somewhere. :D

Peace out to all my 928 friends...

James
78 Silver / Black-white #295
84 Ruby Red / Black AO84
88 Dark Blue / Linen-Black
92 Polar Silver / Dark Blue 92EURO
93 Arrow Blue / Black

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
14 Apr 2013 05:55 #14328 by srshaw3
Replied by srshaw3 on topic New 928OCIC Rules?

For Wichita the OC "PART" sponsored the cost of providing T shirts for the event. When requested to do so they also sponsored $2000 to help cover the cost for the main Dinner on the Friday night. This reduced the registration fee significantly for those attending. After doing this the then President (now a trustee) of the OC declared this a "WASTE" of money because it fed only "MEMBERS" of the OC and was unfair to the rest of the membership. IIRC he voted in favor.
My compnay 928sRus sponsored the event to a value of more than the combined contribution of the OC to the extent that I lost money - I have never complained about this and never will - in my opinion, money well spent from every direction. We all had a great time.


OCIC 2012 and OCIC 2013 funding by 928 OC

The request made to the board (bolding added):
"I would like to formally request that the 928 OC consider a contribution towards the costs of the 2012 OCIC event of $2000. This will be used to cover the costs of the main dinner on Friday evening and lunch on Saturday. I envisage that we will be able to pass back to the club any monies in excess of our expenses as in the previous event. "

My comment after the event when a member asked if there was an accounting:
"This is the first time the 928 OC has expended $2800 on an event. It is important for the member to know what the value of it is. When 20 members have an event that is provided $300, they get what the put in, so there is no issue. When @50 members have an event that cost the club $2800 they are taking far more of their share of the 928 OC resources, and the members who do not attend should understand that."

I stand by the statement that $2800 of membership dues spent on the 2012 OCIC to benefit @50 members and only obtain 1 new member, was regrettable and should not be repeated. MY understanding is that the past, and current board, is in agreement on this.

With regards to the 2013 OCIC; Jerry Feathers has not requested any monies from the 928 OC .

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
14 Apr 2013 06:31 #14329 by the flying scotsman

As for my friend Jerry (and he is my friend) he does not speak for the Board or the Owners Club. Because some may think otherwise that does not make it so. Even if a majority think Jerry is the mouth piece for the club that does not make it so. When he writes an article for TSV it is truly his view. I have said all this before and I am sure I will say it all again in the future and I don't mind doing so. It is like reading article in Panorama and assuming that is what the board of the PCA says, thinks or agrees with. I actually think they have a disclaimer in the magazine somewhere. :D

Peace out to all my 928 friends...


James.......this is the first Ive read this albeit you state its been said before......thanks.

Please now take the next steps :cool:

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
14 Apr 2013 06:54 #14330 by the flying scotsman


I stand by the statement that $2800 of membership dues spent on the 2012 OCIC to benefit @50 members and only obtain 1 new member, was regrettable and should not be repeated. MY understanding is that the past, and current board, is in agreement on this.


Stan......you were not in Witchita!

Ask Mark and Gary about the efforts made to encourage the attendees to sign up to OC. Several times during the event several folks (Roger, Mark, Jerry) stood before the microphone promoting 928OC. We cannot force everyone to join!

Also, remember Roger and myself were on the board during the Witchita event which was attended by 2 other board members Mark and Gary. I dont recall ANY discussion prior to, during or after the event re what would happen if the OC promotion funding didnt generate a good return on investment......WE decided to provide the funds therefor WE accepted the risk of what return WE may recieve.

I am happy to read of OCIC changes and the clubs support of future events.

We look forward to seeing you at our event in Canada next year.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
16 Apr 2013 17:16 #14349 by pcar928fan
Replied by pcar928fan on topic New 928OCIC Rules?

James.......this is the first Ive read this albeit you state its been said before......thanks.

Please now take the next steps :cool:


I said it at least once in your thread about the Canada event on RL and I think Austin and perhaps Gary said it there as well. Perhaps not a clearly as it was stated here.

Nearly finished with all of the OCIC (as well as non-OCIC GTG) rules/guidelines from the board.

Look for them soon!

James
78 Silver / Black-white #295
84 Ruby Red / Black AO84
88 Dark Blue / Linen-Black
92 Polar Silver / Dark Blue 92EURO
93 Arrow Blue / Black

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
16 Apr 2013 17:22 #14350 by the flying scotsman
thx James.........I also posted here wrt the 928 gathering in Canada next year :) As president I was looking for your response as representive of the exec board.

Looking forward to guidelines.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
16 Apr 2013 17:46 #14351 by Alan
Replied by Alan on topic New 928OCIC Rules?

Alan, et al, I would have preferred that this been addressed here more before being brought up on RL because things seem to explode over there for some reason.

Well - it may be that I'm getting old but I don't recall addressing this on Rennlist - but since search doesn't work over there anymore it probably just faulty memory on my part.

In any case I have no axe to grind here - I really don't understand how this blew up into all this... and continues. You'd think it would be easy to resolve - but it seems otherwise...

While having the 928OC define expectations etc better is probably a good thing - I'd really have hoped it wouldn't really be needed for things to work out OK...

James - I don't enevy you your position - slap in the middle - stick with it!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
17 Apr 2013 09:18 #14356 by Marc White
Replied by Marc White on topic New 928OCIC Rules?
Hello 928 OC members:

I said recently that I would check into the inclusive vs exclusive approach to the OCIC. Thank you for the input about this observation. The Board of the 928 Owners Club and Jerry Feather have been busy the last week or so trying to define procedures and philosophies on this type event.

Bottom line: Due to differences, Jerry has decided to not do an OCIC but, instead, to open attendance to all and rename the event "Function in the Junction." Please look for more on this from Jerry, and let's do our best to support his efforts and program.

It must be stated that the OC didn't provide Jerry with any guidelines when he started this effort and have only recently developed the 928OC Event Guidelines, soon to be posted. My intent by mentioning this is to acknowledge Jerry for taking this on and forging ahead basically on his own.

The Club works hard to encourage inclusive events and provide value to the 928 Community. We also encourage positive exchanges between members and believe conflicts between individuals should be handled privately between individuals. Let's all endeavor to avoid negative public posts and personal attacks.

I hope this clears up some of the questions and reinforces the desire of the Club to serve the 928 Community. Many thanks for your understanding.

Best to all,
Marc White

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
17 Apr 2013 14:16 #14357 by Hold On
Replied by Hold On on topic New 928OCIC Rules?

Stan......you were not in Witchita!

Ask Mark and Gary about the efforts made to encourage the attendees to sign up to OC. Several times during the event several folks (Roger, Mark, Jerry) stood before the microphone promoting 928OC. We cannot force everyone to join!

Also, remember Roger and myself were on the board during the Witchita event which was attended by 2 other board members Mark and Gary. I dont recall ANY discussion prior to, during or after the event re what would happen if the OC promotion funding didnt generate a good return on investment......WE decided to provide the funds therefor WE accepted the risk of what return WE may recieve.

I am happy to read of OCIC changes and the clubs support of future events.

We look forward to seeing you at our event in Canada next year.


I was a new member of the 928OC at the 2012OCIC. I took advantage of the pricing. I can`t believe I would have been the only one !!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
17 Apr 2013 19:10 #14361 by pcar928fan
Replied by pcar928fan on topic New 928OCIC Rules?
I was membership chair at the time and recall only one member directly joining at OCIC and then I believe there were about 5 that joined shortly after the OCIC in response to the event. Though the club does not donated money to events expecting to "break even" it would have needed 100 new members (or renewals) due to this event for it to "break even". Again, I am not saying that is the way we should measure the clubs donation to any event, but it is always nice when we have new or renewing members in response to something we have sponsored with YOUR MONEY...remember this is money from your dues that we are trying to be good stewards of and provide the most bang for your buck. That is one of the reasons why I LOVE the tool loaner program! That is something every member here can benefit from! An event (any kind any where) benefits only the folks who can attend.

We need to be visible so that our club can grow though and donating to events to have our logo on shirts and other nice items is a good way to do that.

Alan, yes, I could not win on this one. Despite my many and most logical efforts to defuse the situation I failed... Now that we have solid guidelines on how an OCIC will be handled by the club though the future events should be consistent in how they are handled from a club perspective, though much is still left to the organizer. So they have the freedom to handle things much as they please and have various events as they see fit.

James
78 Silver / Black-white #295
84 Ruby Red / Black AO84
88 Dark Blue / Linen-Black
92 Polar Silver / Dark Blue 92EURO
93 Arrow Blue / Black

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
27 Apr 2013 16:35 #14532 by ROG100
Replied by ROG100 on topic New 928OCIC Rules?

Now that we have solid guidelines on how an OCIC will be handled


Hi James,
Were these published anywhere so prospective organizers can read them?
Roger

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
27 Apr 2013 19:16 #14535 by the flying scotsman
I'd sure like to review them also :)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
27 Apr 2013 19:51 #14536 by pcar928fan
Replied by pcar928fan on topic New 928OCIC Rules?
Gary is working on them. He asked us (Board) to fire him for not getting them out yet, but we refused to fire him or lay him off! ;) They will be consolidated and done soon. Sorry guys. Hang in there for us please.

James
78 Silver / Black-white #295
84 Ruby Red / Black AO84
88 Dark Blue / Linen-Black
92 Polar Silver / Dark Blue 92EURO
93 Arrow Blue / Black

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
27 Apr 2013 21:13 #14547 by the flying scotsman
thx James.

there might be one who we would vote off the island but certainly not Gary :)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
30 Apr 2013 17:50 #14571 by pcar928fan
Replied by pcar928fan on topic New 928OCIC Rules?
LOL! Exactly right! I'm not voting anyone off the island as everyone brings a different set of skills to the table and all are needed! I am happy for all the folks I have the pleasure to work with. Hope we will have these to you (and everyone else) soon!

Hang in there guys!

James
78 Silver / Black-white #295
84 Ruby Red / Black AO84
88 Dark Blue / Linen-Black
92 Polar Silver / Dark Blue 92EURO
93 Arrow Blue / Black

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
30 Apr 2013 20:33 #14573 by the flying scotsman
you cant vote him off, his position is cemented forever but I digress.

Whenever your comfortable James please release the new guidelines, we look forward to reviewing and potential association with the club for our "Sharks On Ice" event in Canada next year :)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
01 May 2013 16:03 #14583 by pcar928fan
Replied by pcar928fan on topic New 928OCIC Rules?
Sharks on Ice! I LOVE IT!!!

Yes, I agree that Gary is stuck for life as 928OC money man!! Happy to have him there also!

Watch for the post in a new thread more than likely M and I'll try and post a link to it over on this thread as well. We might get Austin to do that when the time comes!

James
78 Silver / Black-white #295
84 Ruby Red / Black AO84
88 Dark Blue / Linen-Black
92 Polar Silver / Dark Blue 92EURO
93 Arrow Blue / Black

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
13 May 2013 11:31 #14693 by the flying scotsman

Sharks on Ice! I LOVE IT!!!

Yes, I agree that Gary is stuck for life as 928OC money man!! Happy to have him there also!

Watch for the post in a new thread more than likely M and I'll try and post a link to it over on this thread as well. We might get Austin to do that when the time comes!


hi James.........is there any update to this subject?

thx

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
13 May 2013 20:19 #14706 by pcar928fan
Replied by pcar928fan on topic New 928OCIC Rules?
You know Malcolm, I need to ping the board, I thought we were going to put this up for a vote last week... Stand by and again, sorry for the delay.

James
78 Silver / Black-white #295
84 Ruby Red / Black AO84
88 Dark Blue / Linen-Black
92 Polar Silver / Dark Blue 92EURO
93 Arrow Blue / Black

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
13 May 2013 21:14 #14711 by the flying scotsman
thx James..........although our event is 14 months away we want to be absolutely clear on all aspects and the 928 fraternity can gather as one.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
14 May 2013 21:10 #14726 by pcar928fan
Replied by pcar928fan on topic New 928OCIC Rules?
The new rules are posted, voted on and approved. You now have all that we have been talking about and cussing and discussing!

James
78 Silver / Black-white #295
84 Ruby Red / Black AO84
88 Dark Blue / Linen-Black
92 Polar Silver / Dark Blue 92EURO
93 Arrow Blue / Black

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
14 May 2013 21:39 #14730 by the flying scotsman
ok gr8.....where are they?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
14 May 2013 22:08 #14731 by gregn928
Replied by gregn928 on topic New 928OCIC Rules?
Malcolm,

I see the guidelines have been passed by unanimous vote today. So, I'll post them momentarily to a separate thread here in the Events Forum.

Greg Nichols
1987 928S4
928OC Charter Member

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Moderators: Rich928mm928billvvOC

Don't have an account yet? Register Now!