Banned a trustee?

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30 Aug 2012 19:10 #10784 by xstepson
Banned a trustee? was created by xstepson
Please tell me how a current trustee of the OC and a person up for re-election could be banned from these forums?

I have no idea what could have been posted as to be so egregrious as to warrant a ban. I also cannot find the post where he had been nominated for trustee. If these posts were deleted, they need to be un-deleted immediately. In my opinion, this be contrued as vote-fixing or election tampering.

Stan, if you are behind this action, you must recuse yourself from this election immediately to curb the appearance of impropriety. If you are not behind this action, then this must be corrected immediately.

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30 Aug 2012 19:49 #10786 by srshaw3
Replied by srshaw3 on topic Banned a trustee?

Please tell me how a current trustee of the OC and a person up for re-election could be banned from these forums?


I suspect you are referring to Malcolm who asked the moderators to do so.

I have no idea what could have been posted as to be so egregrious as to warrant a ban. I also cannot find the post where he had been nominated for trustee. If these posts were deleted, they need to be un-deleted immediately. In my opinion, this be contrued as vote-fixing or election tampering.


This has nothing to do with the election.
Malcolm requested his posts be deleted

Stan, if you are behind this action, you must recuse yourself from this election immediately to curb the appearance of impropriety. If you are not behind this action, then this must be corrected immediately.


Horrific and incorrect accusations on your part. So, you now enter the realm of others, that make *public* accusations without any investigation or even a simple private query, that would have prevented you from casting aspersions on my good name.

I have not provided any specific instructions to the moderators on any of these issues.

It is tragic to see that divisive people have entered these forums and infected the minds of others. I am hopeful that you are one of those who is thus affected, and can be cured.

I have had two people review the topics that were so inflammatory. Both came back with the same opinion, that my posts were straight forward and correct on 928 OC history, and that it was agreed that I was correct in defending attacks on what I have done with the 928 OC, as well as in defending myself against personal attacks.

Every hour that passes towards a time that I no longer will have to defend myself against unjust attacks, can not pass quickly enough.

I again challenge *ANYONE* to find *ANY* time in my life that my ethical and moral standards were not at least as high as their own.

At times I feel I have squandered all my time in developing this club, only to be so readily castigated by those who care so little about having facts in hand.

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30 Aug 2012 20:18 #10789 by ROG100
Replied by ROG100 on topic Banned a trustee?
As "A" Trustee of the Board I was in total disagreement with this unilateral decision and want the membership to know this for my own sanity. To ban a member and trustee without any due consideration was not "cricket" in my book - sorry.

I guess this means I will be banned also !!!!!!

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30 Aug 2012 20:25 #10790 by xjadz928
Replied by xjadz928 on topic Banned a trustee?
Was Malcolm banned from the OC forum or the OC club?

I really have no idea what's going on here...

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30 Aug 2012 20:26 #10791 by srshaw3
Replied by srshaw3 on topic Banned a trustee?

As "A" Trustee of the Board I was in total disagreement with this unilateral decision and want the membership to know this for my own sanity. To ban a member and trustee without any due consideration was not "cricket" in my book - sorry.

I guess this means I will be banned also !!!!!!


Were you asked by the moderator?
If not, as I would expect is the case, you couldn't have been in "total disagreement", could you?

Another conclusion jump by you Roger, no surprise, nor that you post it publicly.

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30 Aug 2012 20:27 #10792 by srshaw3
Replied by srshaw3 on topic Banned a trustee?

Was Malcolm banned from the OC forum or the OC club?

I really have no idea what's going on here...


No, he chose to leave on his own, and requested his posts be deleted.

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30 Aug 2012 20:44 #10793 by JWise
Replied by JWise on topic Banned a trustee?

No, he chose to leave on his own, and requested his posts be deleted.


I don't remember his exact wording and can't refer to it as it's no longer available. That said, all I recall was him asking for were his posts to be deleted, followed by him bidding us goodbye. I wouldn't equate that to asking to be banned.

Why would someone ask to be banned? Seems illogical to me, you don't need to be banned to cease visiting a site - you simply don't go there any more.

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30 Aug 2012 20:47 #10794 by linderpat
Replied by linderpat on topic Banned a trustee?

...I again challenge *ANYONE* to find *ANY* time in my life that my ethical and moral standards were not at least as high as their own.

...


...right now Stan.


Take it for what you will. I have always been a supporter of yours, I voted for you at least twice, but you have gone completely off the reservation. The only thing we have to judge you by at this point is how you are appearing now. Like so many other things in life, we are remembered not for the body of good that we have done, but for the last acts we have committed. Stan, you really need to step back from this. You are too close, and it looks very bad.

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30 Aug 2012 20:52 #10795 by srshaw3
Replied by srshaw3 on topic Banned a trustee?

Why would someone ask to be banned? Seems illogical to me, you don't need to be banned to cease visiting a site - you simply don't go there any more.


Because he is a voting board member, his ID needs to be preserved should he desire to vote. I did not select, nor request, the "ban" option.

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30 Aug 2012 20:54 #10796 by srshaw3
Replied by srshaw3 on topic Banned a trustee?

...right now Stan.


Take it for what you will. I have always been a supporter of yours, I voted for you at least twice, but you have gone completely off the reservation. The only thing we have to judge you by at this point is how you are appearing now. Like so many other things in life, we are remembered not for the body of good that we have done, but for the last acts we have committed. Stan, you really need to step back from this. You are too close, and it looks very bad.


What are *YOU* talking about?
Read the posts..
I did not take this action.
I did not direct this action.
This was not my doing.

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30 Aug 2012 21:15 #10797 by Kiln_Red
Replied by Kiln_Red on topic Banned a trustee?
Good grief, folks. Seriously?! It was my choice to "ban" Malcolm. That said, he is hardly banned. If he wishes to return, he will be allowed as he left the forums at his own will. Not sure why everyone is so concerned but I asked Malcolm privately if he wanted his posts removed. His simple response, "Yes." I performed a "soft delete" to most of his posts and chose to "ban" his ID as opposed to delete it so that his account would be able to be restored in the future, if he wishes to contribute.

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30 Aug 2012 21:19 #10798 by Kiln_Red
Replied by Kiln_Red on topic Banned a trustee?
Just so everyone is clear, Malcolm deleted his own nomination thread. Not my action.

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30 Aug 2012 21:36 #10799 by JWise
Replied by JWise on topic Banned a trustee?

Good grief, folks. Seriously?! It was my choice to "ban" Malcolm. That said, he is hardly banned. If he wishes to return, he will be allowed as he left the forums at his own will. Not sure why everyone is so concerned but I asked Malcolm privately if he wanted his posts removed. His simple response, "Yes." I performed a "soft delete" to most of his posts and chose to "ban" his ID as opposed to delete it so that his account would be able to be restored in the future, if he wishes to contribute.


So asking for your posts to be deleted = a request to be banned?

I'm still not understanding the decision to "ban" his ID. Unless there was some behind the scenes request (from Malcolm) to do so, your action comes across as punitive to me.

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30 Aug 2012 21:37 #10800 by Kiln_Red
Replied by Kiln_Red on topic Banned a trustee?
If we can keep this to an adult conversation, I will keep this thread open to your feedback. Contrary to what many may think, I don't use this role as a moderator as a way to "dictate" or reign supreme. These are your forums and I want to moderate as you see fit, so please chime in.

That said, this is really simple. If Malcolm wishes to contribute again and he wants his posts restored he should just come forward and say so. It was his decision, in the first place, to decide against further participation.

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30 Aug 2012 21:58 #10801 by Kiln_Red
Replied by Kiln_Red on topic Banned a trustee?

So asking for your posts to be deleted = a request to be banned?

I'm still not understanding the decision to "ban" his ID. Unless there was some behind the scenes request (from Malcolm) to do so, your action comes across as punitive to me.


Hi Jarrod,

No, Malcolm did not request to be banned. He request for his posts to be deleted; the ones that which he had not already deleted himself. Malcolm openly stated he was discontinuing his participation. Clearly a disgruntled poster who's contributions were trending in a negative direction. He claimed during one instance that he mistakenly edited a post by another member. Maybe it was a mistake, but there were a great many set of actions that must have been excused to accept this "mistake" explanation.

You have two options to deal with this poster, in my opinion. The first, delete his ID. This would have been a 1-click answer. Instead, I chose the other option. Going through each individual post and performing a soft delete on 470 of his posts. I then banned his ID. Choosing this action allows his member profile, and his past contributions, to be restored. I felt this was a better option as Malcolm is a 928er at heart and I suspect he will, again, want to contribute.

To be clear, the same set of actions were used in the handling of SeanR's account.

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30 Aug 2012 22:04 #10802 by JWise
Replied by JWise on topic Banned a trustee?

Hi Jarrod,

No, Malcolm did not request to be banned. He request for his posts to be deleted; the ones that which he had not already deleted himself. Malcolm openly stated he was discontinuing his participation. Clearly a disgruntled poster who's contributions were trending in a negative direction. He claimed during one instance that he mistakenly edited a post by another member. Maybe it was a mistake, but there were a great many set of actions that must have been excused to accept this "mistake" explanation.

You have two options to deal with this poster, in my opinion. The first, delete his ID. This would have been a 1-click answer. Instead, I chose the other option. Going through each individual post and performing a soft delete on 470 of his posts. I then banned his ID. Choosing this action allows his member profile, and his past contributions, to be restored. I felt this was a better option as Malcolm is a 928er at heart and I suspect he will, again, want to contribute.

To be clear, the same set of actions were used in the handling of SeanR's account.


Thank you, Austin, for your explanation. I still respectfully disagree with the decision to ban their ID's, as I don't think it was necessary, but I appreciate the courtesy and thoroughness of your response. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I hope you will consider lifting their ban without them having to ask you to do so.

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30 Aug 2012 22:11 #10803 by xstepson
Replied by xstepson on topic Banned a trustee?

Horrific and incorrect accusations on your part. So, you now enter the realm of others, that make *public* accusations without any investigation or even a simple private query, that would have prevented you from casting aspersions on my good name.


Nope. That's why I worded it that way. Here are my words again, just so they can be read again:
"Stan, if you are behind this action, you must recuse yourself from this election immediately to curb the appearance of impropriety. If you are not behind this action, then this must be corrected immediately"

This a public forum of a private club. There must not be even a hint of impropriety and any private dealings would be inappropriate. I cast no aspersions towards you but asked the question and told you what should happen were you involved. Banning a person from the forum who is up for re-election could skew the results. If there is no ban, then there is no problem.

There is a question mark in the title of this thread.

Not everybody is out there to "get" you. This election is not about you. It is about James and Andrew and the lot.

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30 Aug 2012 22:13 #10804 by Kiln_Red
Replied by Kiln_Red on topic Banned a trustee?

Thank you, Austin, for your explanation. I still respectfully disagree with the decision to ban their ID's, as I don't think it was necessary, but I appreciate the courtesy and thoroughness of your response. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.


Thank you for the peaceful exchange. It is relieving to see some posters can still argue their positions without making personal attacks. Thank you for your input. I will consider it, Jarrod. These are your forums and I won't lose sight of that. These issues are tough to deal with, no doubt. And I am trying my best to do the best job I can in moderating these forums fairly and consistently.

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30 Aug 2012 22:18 #10805 by xstepson
Replied by xstepson on topic Banned a trustee?
Thank you Austin for the clarification. I don't know what the issue is/was with Malcolm, but thank you anyway for the clarification.

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30 Aug 2012 22:24 #10806 by Kiln_Red
Replied by Kiln_Red on topic Banned a trustee?

Thank you Austin for the clarification. I don't know what the issue is/was with Malcolm, but thank you anyway for the clarification.


John, do you have a suggestion or any input you wish to make regarding the handling of these accounts by disgruntled posters? As I explained to Jarrod, I welcome constructive input. These are your forums.

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30 Aug 2012 22:30 #10807 by srshaw3
Replied by srshaw3 on topic Banned a trustee?

Not everybody is out there to "get" you. This election is not about you. It is about James and Andrew and the lot.


Really, then why did you direct your comments to me?
Why not did you direct your comments to the moderators?
You made this issue about me, I did not.

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30 Aug 2012 22:35 #10808 by srshaw3
Replied by srshaw3 on topic Banned a trustee?

Not everybody is out there to "get" you. This election is not about you. It is about James and Andrew and the lot.


I would also point out that a Rennlist thread started by Malcolm, who neglected his request to be removed from the 928 OC forum, was immediately responded by several people, including some here, that stated I was behind the action...

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30 Aug 2012 22:35 #10809 by Kiln_Red
Replied by Kiln_Red on topic Banned a trustee?
It should be noted that Stan Shaw had nothing to do with these actions in regards to Sean's and Malcolm's accounts to the forum. I took the actions and they were supported by the other moderator, Brad.

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30 Aug 2012 22:44 #10810 by DR928
Replied by DR928 on topic Banned a trustee?

It should be noted that Stan Shaw had nothing to do with these actions in regards to Sean's and Malcolm's accounts to the forum. I took the actions and they were supported by the other moderator, Brad.


Hi Austin,

So it was you and Brad that stripped Malcolm of his Moderator status here on the 928OC Forums?

From the outside looking in that was what started all of this, at least from Malcolm's side.

It would nice to hear the explanation for what caused this action against Malcolm, if that is OK to ask.

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30 Aug 2012 23:07 #10811 by Kiln_Red
Replied by Kiln_Red on topic Banned a trustee?

Hi Austin,

So it was you and Brad that stripped Malcolm of his Moderator status here on the 928OC Forums?

From the outside looking in that was what started all of this, at least from Malcolm's side.

It would nice to hear the explanation for what caused this action against Malcolm, if that is OK to ask.


Absolutely, Dave. These some like fair questions and I hope that I will provide reasonable answers.

No, to your first question. I don't believe Brad and I have the authority to name or displace a moderator. I believe only an administrator can perform that function. The administrator did so, as they cited to the moderators, because Malcolm lost their trust when it was found that he had manipulated the text of another post not belonging to him. I felt this was sufficient justification as being a moderator is only a privilege to begin with. A privilege granted by the administrator based on a relationship of trust and a perceived good judgment on caring for the forums.

It should be noted that Malcolm was not banned, at that time. There was no proof of malicious intent by Malcolm, only suspicion. It was later on that Malcolm wished to discontinue his participation; a choice all on his own that he made publicly and privately. I informed Malcolm, at that time, that I hated to see him leave. He was a great asset to these forums and I wish that he would reconsider his decision as I feel it was one made purely out of frustration.

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30 Aug 2012 23:32 #10813 by JWise
Replied by JWise on topic Banned a trustee?

...It should be noted that Malcolm was not banned, at that time. There was no proof of malicious intent by Malcolm, only suspicion. It was later on that Malcolm wished to discontinue his participation; a choice all on his own that he made publicly and privately. I informed Malcolm, at that time, that I hated to see him leave. He was a great asset to these forums and I wish that he would reconsider his decision as I feel it was one made purely out of frustration.


Austin, we're in agreement to an extent. I, too:
  • hated to see Malcolm leave
  • believe he was a great asset to these forums
  • wished he would have reconsidered leaving
  • felt he made his decision out of frustration

Where we differ is your decision to not leave it at that, to actively go beyond and ban him. What was the point? He was already gone! THAT'S why the decision seems to me to be a parting shot, an attempt to have the last word. This is the basis of why I think you should reverse your decision without him having to ask. Thanks for your consideration.

BTW - I feel the same about Sean's banning as well.

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30 Aug 2012 23:43 #10814 by MGW-Fla
Replied by MGW-Fla on topic Banned a trustee?

...... I don't believe Brad and I have the authority to name or displace a moderator. I believe only an administrator can perform that function. The administrator did so, as they cited to the moderators, because Malcolm lost their trust when it was found that he had manipulated the text of another post not belonging to him. I felt this was sufficient justification as being a moderator is only a privilege to begin with. A privilege granted by the administrator based on a relationship of trust and a perceived good judgment on caring for the forums........


Hi Austin, just to clarify & to understand who actually initiated or authorized this action, can you please tell us specifically who this "administrator" is that is the only one who could make these decisions?

Thanks,

Mel

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30 Aug 2012 23:49 #10815 by Kiln_Red
Replied by Kiln_Red on topic Banned a trustee?
Jarrod, Malcolm has viewed this thread and I presume he would have posted on the topic if he had permission. Since we can agree that Malcolm may have made this decision out of frustration, can we not also agree that Malcolm not return to these forums with the same "frustrated" attitude? A break may not be a bad thing for Malcolm and I am glad that we can agree that Malcolm has traditionally been a positive force here. When, and if, Malcolm expresses he is ready to make a peaceful return to these forums, he will be allowed. All it takes is reaching out. Banning him was no attempt at "having the last word." You are mistaken. There was no negative exchange between myself and Malcolm, either publicly or privately. Had there been, I would've advised Brad to handle the matter as there would be an obvious conflict of interest as I am a moderator.

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30 Aug 2012 23:51 #10816 by Kiln_Red
Replied by Kiln_Red on topic Banned a trustee?

Hi Austin, just to clarify & to understand who actually initiated or authorized this action, can you please tell us specifically who this "administrator" is that is the only one who could make these decisions?

Thanks,

Mel


Stan Shaw.

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31 Aug 2012 00:01 #10817 by DR928
Replied by DR928 on topic Banned a trustee?

Absolutely, Dave. These some like fair questions and I hope that I will provide reasonable answers.

No, to your first question. I don't believe Brad and I have the authority to name or displace a moderator. I believe only an administrator can perform that function. The administrator did so...


Hi Austin,

Thanks for getting back to me!

Just for clarification, who is the Administrator that took this action? EDIT: Never mind, I see you answered while I was typing, thanks!

..., as they cited to the moderators, because Malcolm lost their trust when it was found that he had manipulated the text of another post not belonging to him. I felt this was sufficient justification as being a moderator is only a privilege to begin with. A privilege granted by the administrator based on a relationship of trust and a perceived good judgment on caring for the forums.

It should be noted that Malcolm was not banned, at that time. There was no proof of malicious intent by Malcolm, only suspicion.


You are aware it is very easy for a novice or newbie Mod to accidentally "Edit" someone else's post, right? As a more experienced Moderator I would hope you can see how that could happen accidentally...if not I can clearly explain it for everyone, as I am very familiar with how this can happen accidentally...seen it many times myself, done it myself a few times.

It is also very obvious when a Mod edits someone else's Post as there is a clear record of ALL Edits available to anyone with Admin or Mod privileges...so there is no way anyone could edit a post on purpose and then hide the fact they did this, right?

So how could any Admin or Mod ever think another Mod would edit another's post for any hidden or malicious purpose..since it can't be hidden at all?

FWIW, as a Rookie Mod I made the same mistake Malcolm did 6 times in my first week as a Mod. When you have all the extra "Edit" buttons on everyone's Post it is easy to Click "Edit" instead of "Quote". So you click what you think is "Quote" when it was actually "Edit" you type what you thought was your post with someone else's quote (in this case Stan's Post/quote") ... hit the button and BOOM....you just accidentally Edited someone else's post and didn't know it if you weren't paying close attention.

Again, IMHO It is and WAS a simple mistake...but someone some where made a rushed judgement and started making accusations of "malicious intent" and "mischief" and quickly stripped Malcolm of Mod privileges within minutes ....EVEN after Malcolm posted in the now deleted thread that he had made an honest mistake when it was pointed out on the thread and he realized what he had done.

I am curious, as a fellow Mod of his, did you contact Malcolm and ask him what happened? If so, what was his version of what happened?

So to condense this timeline...

Malcolm makes simple honest mistake (yes, just my opinion from what I saw) and in less than 30 minutes he is stripped of Moderator privileges and accused of "Malicious Intent" and "mischief" and a warning goes out for everyone to check and see if he has edited their posts in other threads.....then the thread is deleted minutes later for some odd reason,.....then another Mod makes an Off Topic Post in an unrelated Thread (James thread here forums.928oc.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=10918&postcount=22 ) hours later saying that the "Sterling" thread (where all this Malcolm "Edit" stuff went down) was deleted for an altogether different reason,.....which I found very odd,..... and now here we are discussing and wondering why Malcolm wanted his posts taken down on this Forum.

Of course that is just how I saw it happen from my limited perspective, I am open to hearing if you saw it differently, as I am sure other members are too.

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31 Aug 2012 00:15 #10819 by xstepson
Replied by xstepson on topic Banned a trustee?

Really, then why did you direct your comments to me?
Why not did you direct your comments to the moderators?
You made this issue about me, I did not.


Because Stan, you are the current president, and administrator, and the person who could "fix" it, if need be. That's why I asked you specifically.

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31 Aug 2012 00:21 #10820 by Kiln_Red
Replied by Kiln_Red on topic Banned a trustee?

Hi Austin,

Thanks for getting back to me!

Just for clarification, who is the Administrator that took this action? EDIT: Never mind, I see you answered while I was typing, thanks!



You are aware it is very easy for a novice or newbie Mod to accidentally "Edit" someone else's post, right? As a more experienced Moderator I would hope you can see how that could happen accidentally...if not I can clearly explain it for everyone, as I am very familiar with how this can happen accidentally...seen it many times myself, done it myself a few times.

It is also very obvious when a Mod edits someone else's Post as there is a clear record of ALL Edits available to anyone with Admin or Mod privileges...so there is no way anyone could edit a post on purpose and then hide the fact they did this, right?

So how could any Admin or Mod ever think another Mod would edit another's post for any hidden or malicious purpose..since it can't be hidden at all?

FWIW, as a Rookie Mod I made the same mistake Malcolm did 6 times in my first week as a Mod. When you have all the extra "Edit" buttons on everyone's Post it is easy to Click "Edit" instead of "Quote". So you click what you think is "Quote" when it was actually "Edit" you type what you thought was your post with someone else's quote (in this case Stan's Post/quote") ... hit the button and BOOM....you just accidentally Edited someone else's post and didn't know it if you weren't paying close attention.

Again, IMHO It is and WAS a simple mistake...but someone some where made a rushed judgement and started making accusations of "malicious intent" and "mischief" and quickly stripped Malcolm of Mod privileges within minutes ....EVEN after Malcolm posted in the now deleted thread that he had made an honest mistake when it was pointed out on the thread and he realized what he had done.

I am curious, as a fellow Mod of his, did you contact Malcolm and ask him what happened? If so, what was his version of what happened?

So to condense this timeline...

Malcolm makes simple honest mistake (yes, just my opinion from what I saw) and in less than 30 minutes he is stripped of Moderator privileges and accused of "Malicious Intent" and "mischief" and a warning goes out for everyone to check and see if he has edited their posts in other threads.....then the thread is deleted minutes later for some odd reason,.....then another Mod makes an Off Topic Post in an unrelated Thread (James thread here forums.928oc.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=10918&postcount=22 ) hours later saying that the "Sterling" thread (where all this Malcolm "Edit" stuff went down) was deleted for an altogether different reason,.....which I found very odd,..... and now here we are discussing and wondering why Malcolm wanted his posts taken down on this Forum.

Of course that is just how I saw it happen from my limited perspective, I am open to hearing if you saw it differently, as I am sure other members are too.


Dave, I feel most of your questions are directed at Stan as they primarily put the action of stripping Malcolm of his moderator privilege into question.

I will respond, though, purely out of my own opinion of the situation and the various assessments made in response to these actions. Firstly, I think it is rather hard to overlook the fact of who's post was edited; accident or not. Secondly, it seems really inconvenient that this type of mistake took place at the time that it did; during a time of a divisive election. Thirdly, it's hard to imagine how Malcolm could've erased text by another poster without noticing.

Just my $.02. Also, I did reach out to Malcolm for an explanation. Quite honestly, I did not understand the response.

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31 Aug 2012 00:30 #10821 by Kiln_Red
Replied by Kiln_Red on topic Banned a trustee?
I think it is quite clear why the thread discussion about Sterling's car was deleted. Another disgruntled poster who cut and run, Sean, muddied it up by questioning Brad's motives for beginning it. I greatly suspect that this would have not been an issue if it wasn't for Sean's opinions for how Brad handled an anonymous poster, McLovin, in an entirely different thread.

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31 Aug 2012 00:40 #10822 by xstepson
Replied by xstepson on topic Banned a trustee?

John, do you have a suggestion or any input you wish to make regarding the handling of these accounts by disgruntled posters? As I explained to Jarrod, I welcome constructive input. These are your forums.


Austin,
For the most part, I think you guys do a fine job moderating.

I do think that after Sept 15, most all of these "problems" will resolve themselves.

Not speaking of any one person(s) in particular, it seems as though some people have gotten their feelings/egos/butt hurt and are having a hard time getting over it. I can see theoretical instances where a cooling off period can sometimes be needed and maybe no further action will be required.

I think the reason posters are disgruntled is more of a cause for alarm than the post itself. If we just "ban" those disgruntled posters, we never get to the root of the problem that made them unhappy to begin with. Discourse should be allowed and encouraged as long as it is healthy.

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31 Aug 2012 00:41 #10823 by DR928
Replied by DR928 on topic Banned a trustee?

I will respond, though, purely out of my own opinion of the situation and the various assessments made in response to these actions. Firstly, I think it is rather hard to overlook the fact of who's post was edited; accident or not.


The first time I did it as a rookie Mod...it was the current Super Moderators post...OOPPPSSS :-) He laughed at me about it, so did all 3 of the Admins and all 12 of the other Mods on staff.

Secondly, it seems really inconvenient that this type of mistake took place at the time that it did; during a time of a divisive election.


I agree, but it could also seem really "inconvenient" since Malcolm had made some posts in other threads about a meeting at the OCIC that was sternly questioned by the Admin, and just an hour prior to this "Edit issue" he made a post supporting Andrew(in Andrew's Thread), you see that is just an example of how things can be justified in a variety of ways....BUT, even taking that way, and being completely benign, aren't things a little more "active" around lately AND couldn't that just as easily explain the "timing" of his honest mistake???

Thirdly, it's hard to imagine how Malcolm could've erased text by another poster without noticing.


Really? Have you never Quoted another person and either removed part of the Quote leaving just what you wanted to respond to, or separated the quote like I am doing yours now???? We all do it, it is normal to do so. Again, honest mistake....AND once you hit that rectangular gray button it is too late...no matter it you noticed it said "Submit Reply" or "Save Changes"..or not. Long time habits can trick the mind easily.


Just my $.02. Also, I did reach out to Malcolm for an explanation. Quite honestly, I did not understand the response.


Fair enough, I have honestly observed you trying to be mostly fair in your Moderation and don't doubt this as all....but if you think now about what he tried to say then, combined with some of the things I have said...are you still confident Malcolm had "malicious Intent" or was up to "mischief"...enough that he should have been canned as a MOD without any sort of review process or discussion among other Mods and Admin?

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31 Aug 2012 00:43 #10824 by DR928
Replied by DR928 on topic Banned a trustee?

I think it is quite clear why the thread discussion about Sterling's car was deleted. Another disgruntled poster who cut and run, Sean, muddied it up by questioning Brad's motives for beginning it. I greatly suspect that this would have not been an issue if it wasn't for Sean's opinions for how Brad handled an anonymous poster, McLovin, in an entirely different thread.


Austin,

To refresh your memory, Sean's part was on the first half or so of page 1 of that thread..the "Malcolm Edit part" took up the rest of page 1 AND Page 2.

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31 Aug 2012 00:50 #10825 by JWise
Replied by JWise on topic Banned a trustee?
My thoughts in red. Looks like we're still a ways apart, but that's OK.

...Since we can agree that Malcolm may have made this decision out of frustration, can we not also agree that Malcolm not return to these forums with the same "frustrated" attitude? You're assuming he would return the same as he departed, I would give a respected member of the community the benefit of the doubt A break may not be a bad thing for Malcolm and I am glad that we can agree that Malcolm has traditionally been a positive force here. Agreed, I figured that's what he was doing - taking a break. When, and if, Malcolm expresses he is ready to make a peaceful return to these forums, he will be allowed. All it takes is reaching out. See, to me this smacks of him having to "kiss the ring", which I wouldn't blame him for refusing to do. He left on his own, why should he have to ask to return? He wasn't banned until he was already gone. Banning him was no attempt at "having the last word." You are mistaken. See prior point. There was no negative exchange between myself and Malcolm, either publicly or privately. The lack of negative exchange further mystifies me as to why he was banned Had there been, I would've advised Brad to handle the matter as there would be an obvious conflict of interest as I am a moderator.

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31 Aug 2012 00:55 #10826 by DR928
Replied by DR928 on topic Banned a trustee?

I think the reason posters are disgruntled is more of a cause for alarm than the post itself. If we just "ban" those disgruntled posters, we never get to the root of the problem that made them unhappy to begin with. Discourse should be allowed and encouraged as long as it is healthy.


Hi John,

Agree! Plus, closing and deleting threads doesn't help get to the root of, or helps resolve problems/issues either...it just causes them to spread and pop up again and again in other Forum areas or threads.

Cheers,

Dave

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31 Aug 2012 00:57 #10827 by Kiln_Red
Replied by Kiln_Red on topic Banned a trustee?

Austin,
For the most part, I think you guys do a fine job moderating.

I do think that after Sept 15, most all of these "problems" will resolve themselves.

Not speaking of any one person(s) in particular, it seems as though some people have gotten their feelings/egos/butt hurt and are having a hard time getting over it. I can see theoretical instances where a cooling off period can sometimes be needed and maybe no further action will be required.

I think the reason posters are disgruntled is more of a cause for alarm than the post itself. If we just "ban" those disgruntled posters, we never get to the root of the problem that made them unhappy to begin with. Discourse should be allowed and encouraged as long as it is healthy.


John, thank you for the kind words but I hope that we agree that the discourse has been all but positive lately in a majority of these exchanges. I wonder how the moderators of Rennlist would respond if I were to begin a thread requesting any submissions I had previously made to the forums be deleted. The same poster who did so continually used profanity in his posts and said things like, "Thanks for the laughs" in reaction of moderator decisions here to delete posts made by anonymous users. It seemed an easy decision to ban SeanR. In a job where it is important to be consistent, I made the decision to handle Malcolm's account the same way when he made similar comments, "goodbye, farewell", etc..

When either poster decides they can contribute in a positive way, as they each have before, they may return. Having a difference of opinion is fine, John. As you say.. A positive discourse is possible, so these forums will not be an "anything goes" venue.

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31 Aug 2012 01:04 #10828 by Kiln_Red
Replied by Kiln_Red on topic Banned a trustee?

Hi John,

Agree! Plus, closing and deleting threads doesn't help get to the root of, or helps resolve problems/issues either...it just causes them to spread and pop up again and again in other Forum areas or threads.

Cheers,

Dave


Threads have been closed only when they have shifted from the original topic, and that will continue to be the rule.

Any poster may delete a topic that they originally begun for any reason they choose. I have not deleted any threads. I have, on the other hand, deleted posts. Posts which were requested to be deleted by the original poster, and thus, deleted many threads by default where the posts originally began the topic.

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